there’s way too much suffering out there to concentrate your efforts on saving fetuses that most often are a bundle of cells the size of a quarter. remember, abortions are usually performed during early pregnancy.

if you’re against abortion i hope you’re vegan, too. if i’m not mistaken, the word is “pro-life,” not just “pro-fetuses,” so you better be campaigning for cows, chickens, squirrels, birds, ants, etc., because we’re all living on this earth.

also, what kind of life is waiting for a child who is not wanted or whose parents are incapable of caring for him or her? weigh that suffering against the *possible* pain that awaits a developing fetus upon abortion.

why is protected (or premarital) sex a bad thing? if contraceptives prevent unwanted pregnancies, why oppose them? you can’t impose Christian beliefs on people who aren’t Christian.

Abortion, as we all can see, is used – again and again and again- as a wedge issue to help elect Republicans who start wars that kill tens of thousands of people. Meanwhile, pro life and pro choice factions keep fighting, and the movement that should be taking place – preventing unwanted pregnancies, and preventing abortions and their apparent social necessity, goes unfulfilled for generation after generation.

I got here by searching the entire web for “pro-choice/pro life alliance.” I find that phrase here, along with a comment that “most pro-choice people are also anti- birth control.”

If you care about reducing and preventing abrotions, you’re not doing your cause a service by indulging in bizarre notions that keep you out of touch with the reality of what you purport to care so much about. Think about it. Does that make any sense? It is the demographic of people who align themselves with the pro-life movement (read: conservative) that advocate such inept solutions as “abstinance only programs” that don’t support birth control. It is the religious faction, strongly identified as pro life, that by and large opposes birth control. I can’t help asking myself – are you making this stuff up?

I am pro-choice/anti abortion, and I believe the solution is not in standing in front of clinics harassing desperate women and girls, or in electing extreme right wing psychopaths who have no respect for the children, or the fetuses, that they bomb half way around the world. Maybe you think that is crazy, but more likely you think some things about me that are completely false. That stragegy – convincing yourselves that pro-choice people are anti birth control, or whatever else makes us sound insane enough that you look better by comparison, is certainly, certainly not the solution.

Our politicians – all of them, Republicans and Democrats alike, have pitted us against each other to the detriment of women, girls, babies, and society as a whole both here and abroad. We can’t fight anymore, WE ALL WANT THE SAME THING. Nobody likes abortions. We need to get past the lies we’ve been told about each other and work together. Our common ground is that we want to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place (am I wrong?). Honestly working towards that end is the ONLY solution to this mess.

Playing into the hands of politicians who use this and other wedge issues to divide us, over and over and over, does so at the cost of these abortions you- all of us- don’t want to see taking place. Are you ready to get serious? Do you want to get out of the sandbox and truly start saving lives? Let’s recognize what has been happening to us, and refuse to allow ourselves (“pro-choice” and “pro-life” alike) to be further divided, distracted and manipulated. Only then can we attack the root issues that Felicity from Africa laid out in the previous post.

I am from a country in Africa that banned abortion for many years, with predictable results: high maternal death rates, women dying from backstreet abortions, massive child poverty (if you are too poor to have a child, you really shouldn’t, it’s not great for the child to live and die on the streets), massive female poverty. Many people don’t want to have abortions, but women should have choices, and abortion should be one of those choices. We now have the choice to have safe, state funded abortions, and believe me, women’s lives are much, much better.

Birth control is not all that well-developed – in fact, we have fewer birth control choices now than women did in the 1970s thanks to decades of hard work by the prolife movement. People who try hard not to get pregnant still do. Many people who are prolife do not really want to reduce the abortion rate – they want people to stop having sex. This is about as realistic as wanting people to stop breathing, eating or drinking. Prolifers should be enthusiastic supporters of birth control – effective birth control would reduce the abortion rate even more than pipe bombing abortion clinics and assassinating doctors. But that is not the prolife platform. The prolife platform is profoundly anti-life – “Please stop having sex”.

I’m sure you’ve all heard the statistic about teens who take abstinence pledges: they have MORE std’s than teens who don’t. (for a discusssion see: http://www.aclu.org/reproductiverights/sexed/12604res20050504.html)

Instead of running around with pictures of chopped up fetuses, you guys could really make a difference in your community (and reduce the abortion rate) by lobbying for proper sex education, free birth control, better peer sex counselling and so on. I think your passion is amazing, but so misguided. The truth is that most of you do not really care about the unborn, if you did, you would try very hard to stop the situation from developing at all.

And while we’re at it, did you know that a staggering proportion of teen mothers were raped? “Many teen mothers have been victims of sexual violence. In a study of pregnant and parenting teens, nearly 66 percent reported nonvoluntary sexual activity; 44 percent reported having been raped. The average age of first rape was 13.3, with the rapist’s average age being 22.6″ (see http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/publications/factsheet/fsyoungerteens.htm) If you want to help unwed teen mothers, try campaigning against violence against women, or doing rape education at your school for men and boys. That would help reduce the teen abortion rate.

Abortion is an issue that cannot be separated from problems of race, poverty, education and social environment. To think that posters of mutilated corpses will change this is naive. To make a real difference, try visiting inner city schools and teaching young girls that they have the right to say no. If you believe in abstinence, try helping out the teen girls who don’t want to have sex, but are forced by older men.

Also, are you all aware that PP Expresses do not actually perform abortions?

Sydnie,
I find it a little concerning that you believe that something doesn’t also have to happen to catch the flu. For some people pregnancy is tragic. It really is. I understand that this probably isn’t what you want to hear, but that chickpea size baby inside of you really is a fetus. It is a potential person. I hope that all of your dreams come true, and that your fetus comes to be a beautiful and healthy baby, but I’m afraid right now it is only a group of cells working on becoming a person. It’s what stem cell research is based on.

There is a period of time where every embryo has as good of a chance at becoming one body part as any other.

Your understanding, nor mine effect what is real, simply our reactions to what we believe is real. That you don’t understand how a woman has the right to have an abortion does nothing to remove it. She, the woman, is an individual, she has been born. Being born is that which gives her the rights, the unborn do not have the rights. The fact that she has no choice but to make decisions to live makes it so that she must have rights. The fetus does not have to make decisions in order to live. The fetus does not require rights, has not been guarenteed rights, and to grant it rights would be to redirect the rights of the woman whose body contains the womb that it requires for it’s very life.

The woman retains the rights to her body. Your right, we should not beg, it is ours. Considering the conflict of interest between the anti-abortionists and the stem cell researchers, who are being forced to also beg for your permission to perform research that will lead to medical innovations we might not even dream of, I wish to hear nothing about rights to their efforts in the future. Yet, this is how it will play out, because it is how it always does, despite the anti-abortionists, they will create life saving medical technology. One day, some one will be sick, requiring treatments that would not exist without stem cell research, and the ‘sacrifice’ of human embryos, as you will have it, and the same people who fought them so fiercely will be lined up demanding their abilities be used in the name of ‘life.’

I’m curious though, How would you define life? What is life to you? How would you define a person? The physicians for life site you directed me to said that personhood was a philosophical matter. What is your philosophy on the topic of personhood?

I don’t condone, nor believe that it is at all productive for pro-choicers to engage in such methods as you have described. It isn’t that I doubt that it happens, it’s just that I don’t think that it serves any purpose of any kind and shouldn’t occur. Of course, I’m also opposed to the bombings of abortion clinics, the shooting of doctors, the harrassment of women attempting to enter clinics, or the establishment of imposter clinics which then harrass women upon entering, calling them horrible things, and telling them that if they have an abortion they will be reduced to a status below the lowest of animals, that all animals will then be better than them. Call me silly. Oh, and Anthrax in the mail to clinics, I put that on the bad idea list too.

Out of curiosity however, what would you have done that would be more productive? Ideas are welcome I assure you.

Please, I beg you.

Respect my rights, regardless of your beliefs.

Thank you.

This hit me hard. Particularly the “Please, I beg you.” part.

We should not have to beg you, petition you, or bargain with you for our rights. You do not have them to give to us, it is removal that is being attempted, not retention on your part. The retention is on my part. I am also not able to negotiate the rights of any but those that are mine with you.

I will not make attempts to negotiate ways to control the bodies of minds of anyone except myself. Discussions regarding self control should be held only by those who understand what the self is, and respect it, and hold it in the regard it deserves. When control is attempted of others beside the self we have ceased to discuss self control. We are discussing the control of others, and we have a wide array of terms we apply to them, including dictator.

The wall, that you are in favor of attempting to work at penetrating that is set between you and I is present for the purpose of protecting me from you. Not the other way around, because I am not a threat to your rights. I do not threaten your right to control me, because you do not have that right. It has been presumptiously maintained by the anti abortion camp in error as it does not exist; not here. The wall, as I identify it was sealed with Roe vs. Wade. Roe vs. Wade is a Good and Just ruling. It properly defends the Constitution and honors the Declaration of Independance.

As long as the wall stands the begging and pleading for our freedom to control our own bodies and minds is only in horrible anticipation of a repeat of a history that some of us who are younger are fortunate enough to only know the grizzly tales of. We have inherited a country where back alley abortions and suicide due to unwanted pregnancies and a lack of options are overall the same as tales of the Great Depression. Graciously we hear the words, but have nothing that we can attach to it that makes it completely real for us. We do know that we have also inherited the responsibility to protect this awesome ruling for the rights of women in this country as long as there is one individual who wishes to pry it away from us.

I, as, so many who are determined to defend this right that has been justly upheld, am exhausted. I have things that I would love to do instead, but I recognize the vital importance of this. I recognize that giving into the exhaustion would be to relinquish my rights to my body and my mind, and I am not that exhausted.
It will be when every woman is free to control her mind and body that we will have the young women who do so, and choose to have sex only when they are ready. When young women are taught to love and respect, and understand their body completely that they are to cherish it, by being allowed to do so, not by the issuance of commands, will sluch ideas be possible.

Until then I fear that there will always be a young woman begging you for her right to think for herself, to utilize her mind and her body, begging you for her rights. Begging to pass into a clinic, begging to fill a prescription, begging to obtain a prescription. It breaks my heart to think that this is still a battle that we must waste our time on with all of our advancements. It horrifies me that actual, true, real science, is still being forced to answer to illegitimate faith based imposters. I am distraught to think that a future generation may not only inherit the same battle, but, if we are not diligent, will also have lost the victory that Roe vs. Wade is.

I do not want any young woman, myself, or any others to beg you for anything.

I also am a young woman who has had an abortion and does not Regret it, and does not ask for your acceptance, your forgiveness or anything else. I will not relinquish my rights to you.

It may also interest you to know that Planned Parenthood also provides lots information about the benefits of abstinence for teens, and the physical and emotional advantages of not having sex until one is ready. They also provide information about adoption and can help a woman arrange for an adoption if she does not want to raise a child but does not want to have an abortion. They also provide services unrelated to pregnancy such as annual gynecologic exams.

It is unfortunate that you so adamantly oppose a place that endorses so much of what you, also, believe in.

I think it is great that you all are standing up for what you believe is right–many in our generation are unfortunately apathetic toward important issues in our world. However, it makes no sense to me that you are protesting a clinic that does not provide abortion and instead tries to prevent unintended pregnancies from happening in the first place. It is sort of mind-boggling that you would not be in support of birth control, which can prevent a woman from being in a situation where she might choose to have an abortion.

It may interest you to know that 98% of American women use birth control at some point in their lives. I would assume by self-control you would be referring to abstaining from sex until marriage. This is a very good choice for some people. But even within the confines of marriage most women use birth control. If they did not, our population would be much, much larger!

There are many different kinds of safe, effective birth control methods that do NOT contain hormones, if that is what you oppose. And, contrary to some apparent misinformation, hormonal methods of birth control are extremely safe. Actually, they are much safer than many other perscription drugs–which ALL contain chemicals powerful enough to change things in our body for the better. All drugs also have side-effects. Have you listened to perscription drug comericials lately?

The analogy of suicide and abortion is a little odd to me. I’m very sorry for the struggles your friend has been through, but it does not seem to be a logical comparison. However, mental disorders can be treated with drugs (most of them very powerful). Abortion can likewise be prevented by certain drugs.

I agree with Lauren that it would be nice if “pro-lifers” and “pro-choicers” could meet half-way and work toward something they both believe in–abortion prevention. However, it seems like many of you are very comitted to opposing bc and will not be persuaded otherwise, just like I will not be. In that case, I hope that on this blog we can intelligently disagree and use forums such as these to respectfully voice our beliefs.

Respect my rights, regardless of your beliefs.

Thank you.

I’m Really liking what you’re saying! I was raised by my father, who reared me with ethics similar to those your friend ingrained in her daughters. I was not allowed to date until I was 16, and Dad’s way of addressing “the sex talk” was simple–stay away from sex until you’re married, but if I did happen to have “premarial relations” that resulted in me becoming pregnant, it was made clear that I would have to restructure all of my dreams, hopes and future around my child.

Obviously, abortion was Not a viable option; Dad always worded his talk around the term “unexpected grandchild”, and stressed that I should never be afraid to come to him should I have an unplanned pregnancy. Yes, life would be restructured, but life would go on…only now it would revolve around another individual–an individual he would fully embrace and aid me in rearing.

The result?–I took sexual activity Very seriously!! Dad speaking of sex without even allowing for the possibility of birth control stressed to me how high the stakes were when engaging in irresponsible sex. I didn’t shy from sex when I was younger because of any taboo…it was out of the enormity of consequences I might have to face should I take that risk! My Dad would love and support me (as well as take the biggest hand in raising an “unexpected child” of mine); that I fully believed. However, I also understood that there would be no turning back, and if I wanted to avoid going down that road, I simply wouldn’t open that gate until I felt I could live comfortably with the consequences.

Of course, faith played a huge part, too–loving God meant loving one’s self, and not letting my actions be determined by pure emotion. If the Church outlined the rules, and the rules were based on believing in a deeply loving yet no-nonsense God, it was a safer bet to follow the institution than my own instincts when in doubt.

Therefore, when I said “fear”, I guess I meant in in the sense of fully understanding the consequences of one’s actions. A recent Reuter’s article said that 25% of Canada’s teenagers admitted to having unprotected sex (it just caught my eye as I was surfing the Web–I wasn’t doing any concentrated research, or I would have looked up the U.S. stats)–imagine how much higher it most likely is in this nation!! Here we are, living in a culture that is promoting “safe sex” left and right, and a high percentage of our youth can’t be bothered to heed the former key word in the term. It’s not for lack of knowledge, either–the students I work with can all rattle off various condom brands, and many are carrying a few in their backpack.

It’s a daring assumption I know, but I’ll say it anyway–could it be that the “safe sex” message has backfired??–that today’s youth instead interpret it to mean “sex is safe”, and when the urge hits you, it’s Good to be protected, but if not, oh well?? It’s an unfortunate fact that, when all else fails, fear of unpleasant consequences can be a stellar motivator, or, in this case, deterrent. If we as a culture focused less on the “birth control option” and more on the “these are all of the negative things that can happen to you if you engage in this activity” message, it Might have the desired effect we’re all looking for.

Passions run high when discussing such issues simply because of the stakes that are involved. I’m an ardent pro-lifer, and in my mind there is no question that abortion is murder. As a result, I can fully understand the emotion behind one who hears another try in any way to justify it. I dunno…maybe I’m just Personally tired of “duking it out”, and I Really want to penetrate the wall that stands between, well, “your side and mine”.

The fact remains that you’re just as steadfast in your beliefs than I am in mine–likewise, you see a lot of we believe as utterly abhorrent. Let’s not forget, though, that I think it was Eric’s idea to start this blog site, and once we get all the shouting and mudslinging out of our systems, who knows if it, and other similar forums, Might get us somewhere!!

Lucy, looking forward to hearing what you or anyone else thinks!

Mindset is correct. Fear is incorrect. It’s the same mistake that has been being made for endless generations however, so that any of us would make the same one doesn’t seem that outlandish.

The key is to teach them to love themselves. I want them to have such a high opinion of themselves that they couldn’t imagine doing anything that might jeopardize that opinion. I don’t want any of them, girls or boys, to have anything to prove to anyone as an effort to raise their value in the eyes of anyone. I don’t want the girls having sex so that the boy will like her, because I want her to make him impress upon her that he’s worth it. I want the boys to value her and himself so high that he will cease to value sex above her.

They need to understand that sex is part of them, that it’s not going to the movies. It’s not grabbing a burger. It is something that lasts and that they don’t simply leave behind if they don’t like. It is something that can leave lasting effects that change a life forever. I want them to treat it with respect and with care, but not fear. I want them encouraged to read books about it. I want them encouraged to ask questions.

I want it to be such an open topic of conversation that it becomes no more a way of expressing a sense of identity than eating mashed potatoes.

A woman I work with has two daughters. She had them when she was young. She loves them dearly, but wants more for them than she has. Her solution is to prevent them from dating period, until they are finished with school. However, she answers each and every question they have, she made a mad dash to the book store one day to find a book that would help her daughter understand the question that she had just asked.

Want to know something, it’s working. There is nothing taboo about it, Mom isn’t holding back any information at all, and Mom makes sure they know their value. They are straight A students with perfect attendance, and extrodinary involvement in extracurricular programs. While it isn’t fool proof nothing is, but we know the other way doesn’t work.

Fear didn’t stop me from anything. The fact that I was supposed to be afraid just made it a victory of all the more value. It was my naive way of believing I was controlling my body because I had nothing else to go by. I look at my coworker and think that her methods might have stopped me. Fear and Guilt are what I can assure you did not, and Guilt was something I could extend to my mere existance.

Please don’t make me go find out who, but I believe someone in this post said that Choices require knowledge of what the choices are. I agree. Arm the kids with information, educate them to the good and the bad. Tell them what they are worth. Tell them their value is through the cieling. I mean, I don’t think that it does any good, or makes any sense to believe that a genetic code is what makes them so special that they must be born at the mothers expense; only to behave as if they are all the same and all think the same later on.

It starts in the home. It starts with Sydnie who seems to have the problem licked. The answer is love, education, and respect. Hug them and tell them you love them and they will be less likely to look for that physical attention from some guy. I can tell you what would have changed things for me, I can tell you they are not on the current menu being presented by anyone that I have seen. It’s the same boring menu of more of the same.

Of course, I’ll be ignored. I come from the other side and couldn’t possibly know anything. Just ask Eric.

If anything, thanks for making all of us visiting this site think. I have been reading these blogs steadily yet have found no need to comment; I used to be a driven activist in the pro-life movement, but my current career quite unfortunately takes up all my time, energy and emotion to have any part of myself left to spare (like Katy, I work in the education field…)

You ask why pro-lifers are anti birth control?–from what I understand, it is out of the concern that it will open the gate leading to the path toward abortion. Are people going to use birth control–even staunch pro-lifers??–in many cases inevitably, to be quite honest. However, many believe that actively promoting it will lead toward the mindset that irresponsible sexual behavior is perfectly acceptable.

Too often, while walking through the hallways of various high schools, I’ve seen spent condoms on the floor, and heard students very openly speaking of their sexual activity to peers and teachers alike–students who aren’t even of legal age to drive or consume alcohol. I believe that sex should be taken just as seriously as the former activities, and it scares me that today’s youth don’t view it as such.

In the midst of all the rhetoric, I want to find a way to put a curb on these mindsets. Certainly, open acceptance of birth control as a “societal norm” does not aid in this goal. Are irresponsible people going to have sex?–yes, without a doubt. That doesn’t make it a good thing, though, and I believe it disturbs those of my persuasion when it is being percieved that society is making it convenient for people to refrain from serious, concentrated thought before they act.

Would you at least agree that sex is taken far too lightly in today’s world, and that young people are often the victims of this trend? If we all can concede to this point, then I’d like to ask your honest opinion, since from what I’ve read, I truly respect your intelligence (if, admittedly, not all of your views)! What do we do to change This? If all of us on this site want to live in a world without abortion, Maybe addressing this concern might get us somewhere…

I sincerely hope you’re reading this, and I hope it’s obvious that I’m not looking for a confrontation. I invite anyone else, of course, to respond! If young/irrensponsible people are afraid to have sex (as I sincerely believe they should be…) the spread of STDs will go down, as well as the number of yearly abortions. Action starts with a prevailing mindset…what do we want that mindset to be, and how do we get there??

Lauren, that’s not true at all. If we didn’t want you around here we could have banned you from this site long ago. To tell you the truth, I considered it more than once, on account or your foul language and disrespect towards others.

But I’m not a big fan of censorship and try to be tolerant of other’s views even when they’re expressed with such vitriole. And from time to time we caught a glimpse of your humanity, such as when you mentioned your stuggles with addiction. You and I probably have some common experiences on that score (my addiction was marijuana).

I don’t think you’re stupid, but I do think you’ve bought into a lot of groundless propaganda. For example: Hitler a Christian? Certainly Hitler was willing to say anything to delude people into following him (Chamberlain and Stalin could tell you all about that), including trying to give his campaign a veneer of religion.

But to his close associates he spoke freely of his disdain for Christianity. Here’s just one such statement:

“Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.”

But were you really trying to lay the tens of millions of deaths during the Third Reich and World War II at the feet of the Church?

Three passions have governed my life:
The longings for love, the search for knowledge,
And unbearable pity for the suffering of humankind.

Love brings ecstasy and relieves loneliness.
In the union of love I have seen
In a mystic miniature the prefiguring vision
Of the heavens that saints and poets have imagined.

With equal passion I have sought knowledge.
I have wished to understand the hearts of people.
I have wished to know why the stars shine.

Love and knowledge led upwards to the heavens,
But always pity brought me back to earth;
Cries of pain reverberated in my heart
Of children in famine, of victims tortured
And of old people left helpless.
I long to alleviate the evil, but I cannot,
And I too suffer.

This has been my life; I found it worth living.

With earnest love and peace,

Lauren