By labeling information biased before even reviewing it, you’ve done this yourself.

http://www.afterabortion.info/PAR/V8/n2/finland.html

It’s not that I dont agree with it perse, it’s that it is BIASED. There is a difference.

Don’t get me started on some round earth crap either lol. Last I checked it was the religious crazies who dismissed galileo not my folks.

“How can you expect real debate, when you won’t even view the other side’s information? ”

I will always listen to the other side’s thoughts, but never information. That is biased. Find me unbiased scientific information and I am all ears. Right now the statistics for abortion convey a more pro-choice argument than pro-life. Women aren’t dying en masse as a result of the procedure, women largely arent regretting their abortions, and when birth control is used properly unintended pregnancy does not occur. After 7% of women who don’t use birth control account for over half of abortions.

The statement you are making is sayingi that abortion kills a child. I disagree. Sorry.

Btw, I dont recall ever getting enraged with you. But if you prefer to walk away from the discussion with your tail between your legs because you cant provide anything substantive without some political statement, then i’m sorry for you.

Okay, I guess you didn’t get my point, so I’ll say again: hundreds of thousands of girls die from abortion each year. (Hundreds of thousands of boys die from abortion as well.) As we said before, from the medical reports gathered, it is not possible to collect those statistics, because the reports never say “cause of death: abortion”, but rather, “cause of death: infection” or “cause of death: internal bleeding” or “cause of death: suicide”. The things that take place before the death are not called the cause of death, because they are not the immediate cause. This is similar to how “cause of death: robbery” is never written, but “cause of death: gunshot wound” is; or “cause of death: rape” is never written, but “cause of death: suicide” (due to depression after the rape) is.

Give me the numbers due to robbery or rape, and I’ll give you the numbers due to abortion. (hint: you can’t, because they are estimates based on statistical inference and guesswork, not hard numbers.)

“HAHAHA.. from afterabortion.info.. YEAH i’ll read that when cows jump over the moon ”

Jude: the Earth is round
Lauren: the Earth is flat. show me statistics that show me the Earth is round
Quinn: here’s some info from http://www.roundearth.org
Lauren: hahaha - from Round Earth . org - I’ll read that when cows jump over the moon. Show me from a source I’ll believe, like http://www.flat-earth-inc.com

Lauren, just because info comes from a source you don’t agree with doesn’t automatically make it wrong. We’ve all examined the evidence you present (or try to present, when the links aren’t broken), but you refuse to do likewise.

How can you expect real debate, when you won’t even view the other side’s information? Maybe you’ll find something there that you can show is demonstrably false. Or maybe you’re afraid you might see something there that cramps your narrow views and maybe even proves to you that you are in fact wrong. (Or, maybe you’re just afraid you’ll fall off the edge of the Earth.)

Then again, with the name-calling and insults and profanities you sling around here, you obviously have no interest in *real* discussion and debate. You just like negative attention, and there’s really only one answer for that - the same answer you give to a child who cries and yells just to get attention.

I, for one, refuse to acknowledge or coddle you anymore (at least, not until you grow up). Good-bye, little girl.

“OK jude, find me statistics that you think are truthful…. find statistics that say when abortion plays a part women die more than women who have children..”

No prob. Here it is.

http://www.afterabortion.info/PAR/V8/n2/finland.html

Here’s some statistics for you:
- between 1.1 million and 1.2 million surgical abortions take place each year in this country alone (46 million last year, worldwide) - from the Alan Guttemacher Institute
- approximately 1 in 4 pregnancies in America end in abortion (also from AGI)
- approximately 50% of aborted children are female (that’s from common sense - look it up if you need to)
- therefore, abortions kill between 550,000 and 600,000 girls every year, not including the mothers that die of “infections” or “other causes” immediately after the “legal” abortion takes place

How’s that affect your mortality rate numbers? 25% mortality rate is not good (especially tacked on to our already poorly ranked mortality rate of unaborted children). Nearly 100% of attempted abortions successfully kill the baby (the ones that don’t become the subject of lawsuits).

But abortion is pro-women (just not “pro-” girl babies).

Thanks Orthodoxy, glad to see the credibility is back”

Oh?

Thanks Orthodoxy, glad to see the credibility is back

my point is that your side uses so many scare tactics because not too many people buy the moral argument you try putting forth.. I think that’s wrong. People on the pro-choice position don’t say hey if you have an abortion you’ll be healthy.. No.. it’s just as wrong to do it the other way.

“Just thought I’d post this response, in the interest of full disclosure (which we are often accused of inhibiting).”

Orthodoxy,

Thanks for posting these e-mail replies from Senator Breaux’s office.

I called Cindy Felsten, and will be posting an entry regarding our conversation soon.

When you talk about the mortality rate (childbirth vs. abortion), I believe you are referring to the maternal mortality rate - which makes the “100% mortality” statement invalid.

The reason the maternal mortality rate for childbirth is higher than that for abortion is because mortalities from abortion are included in the maternal mortality rate for childbirth - the death is related to bearing children and is therefor included. So, you can’t compare the two directly - it’s like saying there are more mammals than there are cats. Of course - cats are mammals. So, it’s a misleading bit of information to say that maternal mortality rates are higher than abortion related deaths. Also, some deaths are not considered as being directly related to the abortion - because it is from a secondary cause (infection, later complications, etc.) or because the woman will not admit having had the abortion, and it can’t be listed as a related cause.

If you compare full-term deliveries to abortions, the maternal mortality rate is higher in the case of abortions.

Dear Ms. Felsten (and others at Sen. Breaux’s office),

Thank you for taking the time from your busy schedule (and, I’m sure, many other higher-profile tasks) to look into this. It’s nice to actually receive attention from some elected officials. (For the record, your office is the first and only one that I have heard from so far.)

Although I am pro-life, I am glad to see that something is being done to let truth enter into the debate, even if it is “my side” that is bearing the brunt of this particular blow. I am more interested in truth than in “winning”, and if anyone who claims to be on my side is lying in order to gain an advantage, they should rightly be disciplined. (So much of the abortion debate devolves to ad hominem attacks and lies, with more emphasis placed on who is right than on the women and children affected.)

I do, however, hope that any upcoming legislation that requires full-disclosure from CPCs will likewise apply to Planned Parenthood (and other abortion providers) as well. If the debate is ever to be resolved, truth must be forthcoming from both sides. (Unfortunately, as it currently stands, neither side is 100% clean.)

Please keep up the work of listening to and actually representing the people.

God bless,

—begin email 1—
I looked into this email and yes it is a true story. Many of the Pregnancy Crisis Centers here are staffed by volunteers who are not trained. The information was put out to try to get people to stand up and ask for legislation to stop what some of these centers do. It was not a fundraising plot by Planned Parenthood, though.

I hope this information is helpful.

Cindy Felsten
Legislative Assistant for
Senator Vi Simpson
Senator Billie Breaux
200 W. Washington - 401B
Indianapolis, IN 46204
317-232-9849
—end email 1—

—begin email 2—
I forgot to include that the reason why you have not found public records - the young lady and her family want to move on so they are being protected and they decided not to file a lawsuit. The Crisis Center has no staff, just volunteers and their legal structure makes it difficult to bring legal action. PP’s message was a call to action to support legislation which would help to put an end to intimidation and misleading practices at CPCs. Not all CPCs use those actions.

If I missed answering any of your questions, please let me know and I will get answers.

Cindy Felsten
Legislative Assistant for
Senator Vi Simpson
Senator Billie Breaux
200 W. Washington - 401B
Indianapolis, IN 46204
317-232-9849
—end email 2—

Just thought I’d post this response, in the interest of full disclosure (which we are often accused of inhibiting).

Explicitly? No. Implicitly? Yes.

The story is only remotely plausible if the Planned Parenthood location in question is one that performs abortions.

How about this… people who are not so out of control with reality that they have succumbed to religion beause they can’t handle the world around them.[/quote]
So, because you have not “succumbed to religion” makes you the arbiter of who should and shouldn’t have children? That’s really touching.

So, essentially, the only difference between you and a Jihadist is that the Jihadist believes that Allah will reward him for killing the infidels, while you believe the planet/genetics/what-have-you will reward you (or future generations) for killing the believers.

No worries, then - there’s precedent for that kind of thinking. Namely, Pharaoh tried to stop the believers from procreating. Too bad Pharaoh couldn’t handle the world around him, what with the rain of frogs, locusts, boils, plagues, and such. The solution would have been for Pharaoh to not have hardened his heart against God and His people.

Lauren, please understand that we are not trying to judge you (in spite of your name-calling and wishes of death and non-existence for our progeny). We are trying to correct your faulty logic and help you see the light.

It appears, however, that we have digressed to mere quarreling. and that (unlike true debate and the dialectic) leads nowhere. Therefore, I will follow the advice of St. Paul to Timothy (2 Tim 2:23-26):

“Avoid foolish and ignorant debates, for you know that they breed quarrels. A slave of the Lord should not quarrel, but should be gentle with everyone, able to teach, tolerant, correcting opponents with kindness. It may be that God will grant them repentance that leads to knowledge of the truth, and that they may return to their senses out of the devil’s snare, where they are entrapped by him, for his will.”

I accept my inability to teach you, Lauren, and will instead commend you to God’s mercy in prayer. (I know you don’t believe in it, but I do, not because it gives me comfort and I can’t cope with reality, but because I seen enough evidence to know it to be true.) Know that I will keep up the fight for the heart and soul of this nation, as well for every single person in danger of being denied the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness without due process of law. I know I am in the right, not only by my faith, but by the supreme law of the land, the Constitution:

“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves AND OUR POSTERITY, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

How about this… people who are not so out of control with reality that they have succumbed to religion beause they can’t handle the world around them. People should have to get licenses to have children.

“Did you also invest in Enron, WorldCom, or Adelphia? ”

No for one I was in high school when Enron and all the other companies collapased, and for two I’ve written a lot of pieces on all three of those companies.. I don’t think that you have to believe Planned Parenthood is part of a grand conspiracy because Enron was. Enron was definitely a grand conspiracy through using marking-to-market on their assets. That’s clear cut. However, planned parenthood is run by smart and caring women like me. We don’t want to see womens’ rights erode before our eyes. We have the right to self-determination without some religious wingnut claiming that they have mroe rights to our body than we do.

Yes, but abortions are performed at only 3 of them.