Calling Their Bluff
— Posted by John (May 5, 2006 at 2:58 pm)
We just issued a press release calling on Planned Parenthood to come clean about the “evil CPC” story. It’s astonishing that they think they can get away with this, especially considering that the fact checking really wasn’t that hard.
Zeroing in on the Indianapolis abortion clinic was simply a matter of searching Planned Parenthood of Indiana’s website, and calling two national pregnancy center hotlines to find out the locations of the nearest pregnancy resource centers to each of the three Planned Parenthood abortion clinics in the state.
When I first thought to check for any police reports of the alleged incident, I called a guy who used to work with us who is a wizard at tracking down records, documents, and the like. He verified that although it can often be a hassle to obtain them, police reports are, in fact, matters of public record. (Gotta love the Freedom of Information Act!)
That’s why I was so surprised at how easy it was to search for Indianapolis Police Department records. One click away from the IPD homepage gives a phone number to call with questions regarding police reports.
The woman who answered–yes, a real, live person actually answered the phone–displayed the utmost professionalism and helpfulness in answering my questions. Our conversation took two minutes at the most.
Searching the Marion County Court records to find out if any lawsuits had been brought against the CPC was even easier. (None had, as previously reported.)
In short, one didn’t have to be Chloe O’Brian to find all this information.
All the more reason to wonder why Planned Parenthood thinks they can get away with it.
Related Coverage
- Christina at RealChoice: “This story just unravels faster than a moth-eaten sweater.”
- JunkYardBlog: Planned Parenthood Floats a Big Fat Lie
- The Raving Atheist, via The Dawn Patrol: Truthiness and Consequences
- Ben Bateman: The Sign Should Read: Abortions Provided Here
Also, check out this 2004 journalism project that includes several pictures of both the Planned Parenthood and CPC facilities (HT: JivinJ) by Rachel Conner, a University of Indiana student.
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ProLifeBlogs says:
A campaign of harassment and intimidation?
Yesterday, Jivin commented on the controversy concerning a pregnancy center in Indiana which Planned Parenthood alleges “deceived, lured, and harassed a pregnant 17-year-old girl.”John from the Generations for Life blog has taken the time to call the…
Comment posted May 5th, 2006 at 3:21 pm
Lauren says:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/5/5/1916/47785
Comment posted May 6th, 2006 at 3:23 pm
Lauren says:
Are you going to mudsling this young girl’s name further? Maybe they arent releasing it to protect her PRIVACY. i know you don’t believein that sorta thing, but maybe they dont want to hurt the girl future.
Comment posted May 6th, 2006 at 3:24 pm
Lauren says:
Just because a lawsuit wasn’t filed doesnt mean it isnt true iether
Comment posted May 6th, 2006 at 3:25 pm
Roy Jacobsen says:
Lauren,
What evidence is there that the story is true? Anything? As far as I know, nobody has called for the release of the girl’s name. The story is full of holes, and we’re asking is for something more than Planned Parenthood’s say so.
I’m joining the chorus of others who have said that if someone at the CPC did actually do what PP alleges, they should be punished. I would never condone an act like that. On the other hand, if PP is engaged in slander, that should also be determined, and dealth with.
Comment posted May 6th, 2006 at 9:16 pm
Phil says:
Lauren, your link had nothing to do with this…..and “mudslinging this girl’s name” because no one knows her name. If Planned Parenthood lied, or even just imbellished things, that’s one thing, but they’re using it to make money! If it comes out that there are discrepancies, I bet a lot of PP donors are going to be pissed….
…and I’m sure NARAL will capitalize on it.
John, excellent job!
Comment posted May 6th, 2006 at 10:07 pm
Eric says:
Phil says: Lauren, your link had nothing to do with this . . .
Interesting: When a pro-lifer on this site references an article on a pro-life or conservative site, Lauren declares her refusal to read such “biased” information. When Lauren refers to an article on a pro-abortion or liberal site—The Daily Kos, no less!—the pro-lifers read and respond to it.
Comment posted May 7th, 2006 at 8:58 am
Lauren says:
Is this one ok for you eric? Daily Kos merely referenced a study that had merit, I wasn’t referencing a study done by Kos. There is a difference between a study done by the Guttmacher Institute versus a study done by “Physicians for Life.” If you dont’ see the difference, I’m sorry for you
Comment posted May 7th, 2006 at 2:19 pm
Lauren says:
Naral and Planned Parenthood are two of the best things to ever happen to women. Sorry that you don’t see it that way… I know this enrages you, and it makes me laugh. This site and others are assuming Planned Parenthood lied… What do you want as proof of the story? A lawsuit? The story never claimed to file a lawsuit. The girl’s name? Wouldn’t that further your cause of hurting this young woman further? All in all, what would you want as proof?
Comment posted May 7th, 2006 at 2:21 pm
Lauren says:
And when the story is proven, I guarantee there will not be a single story on this site about it.
Comment posted May 7th, 2006 at 2:22 pm
joe says:
Lauren writes, “Naral and Planned Parenthood are two of the best things to ever happen to women.”
I dated a woman who put her trust in Planned Parenthood. After her abortion she spent four seeing a therapist because of it. I found out only after we went to a family party together, out of the blue she just started sobbing uncontrollably and said, “Why would God ever let me have a baby when I killed mine!”
Where was their compassion? Did Planned Parenthood provide her with the therapy? Did they tell her there is a risk she would feel so consumed with guilt after murdering her own child? Nope!
“Best thing”… I don’t think so.
Comment posted May 7th, 2006 at 2:48 pm
Phil says:
Lauren, the Alan Guttmacher Institute is the research twin of Planned Parenthood. They are an organization that supports abortion, and are therefore biased.
NARAL and PP may benefit some women, but not all. And not all people who support abortion rights are down with them. At the March for Women’s Lives, there was a “Radical Choice” bloc of anarchists who actively oppose the middle class ways and means of the mainstream abortion rights movement. They marched separately to show that they rejected the mostly white, upper middle class, elitist march. The Northeast Federation of Anarcho Communists opposes Planned Parenthood, and have written against them in their publications. Many people in the radical community have organized their own abortion clinics, so people don’t have to go to PP. Planned Parenthood still acknowledges its founder, who lost a lot of support from her friends in the anti-authoritarian movement in NYC when she started espousing racist and elitist views.
Not to mention that Planned Parenthood has been instrumental in poisoning women’s bodies with hormonal birth control. At this year’s National Conference on Organized Resistance (a gathering of over 2,000 anarchists in DC), I found two organizations promoting natural fertility awareness. On Infoshop.org, the anarcha-feminist section has writings about NFA, and how dangerous hormonal BC is. PP gets these poisons out to millions of women, knowing full well that they are dangerous (the WHO acknowledges that they increase the risk of breast cancer). And by buying them for 2-4 dollars a pack, and selling them for more than 20 bucks, they’re making a ton of money off it.
Comment posted May 7th, 2006 at 5:29 pm
Phil says:
I was hanging out Friday night with some friends who are pro-choice, and they were talking about this story. But when I pointed out that so far, there’s nothing proving its legit, they acknowledged that its pretty shady to be thinking its true.
The same movement that capitalized on Becky Bell’s death should have no problem showing some proof that there is legitimacy to this story.
And if it is proven to be true, I’m sure that Annie, John, and Eric will make a post about it.
Comment posted May 7th, 2006 at 5:35 pm
Lauren says:
If it’s poison, why would my MD prescribe it to me for something other than birth control? Idiot.
Comment posted May 7th, 2006 at 8:50 pm
Lauren says:
“After her abortion she spent four seeing a therapist because of it. ”
WHY AGAIN IS THAT PLANNED PARENTHOOD’S FAULT? It’s HER fault for exercising a choice she didnt want to make. IT’S HER FAULT. It’s like saying it’s the cliff’s fault I jumped off of it. Give me a break. Women who have abortions that don’t really want them almost always regret them. that’s a fact. Women that do get them and want them almost always do not regret them. THIS is fact. Why is it so hard for you to believe that a woman could have an abortion and not regret it? Why can you not understand this?
Comment posted May 7th, 2006 at 8:52 pm
Lauren says:
Btw, can you tell me any drug that doesnt have side effects? Why is birth control any more posionous than any other drug. unless you’re a christian scientologist, you are just a mysoginistic ass who wants his hands all over mine and other womens’ bodies. how’s this…. HANDS OFF MY PILLS AND MY BODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Comment posted May 7th, 2006 at 8:54 pm
Phil says:
Lauren, now you’re just resorting to name calling and spouting bumper sticker slogans. Why would a doctor prescribe hormonal birth control to you for a medical problem? Maybe because the the pharmaceutical corporations do not profit off telling you to try making changes in you diet (likewise, they don’t profit off teaching women how to observe their body’s own natural fertility cycle). Many women who have had problems with hormone fluctuations have seen great results by eating macrobiotic meal plans. I think 90% of what people use conventional medicine for is uneccessary, and there are natural methods of treating those problems. See a naturopath, they may be able to help you find a natural solution to whatever is wrong.
Comment posted May 8th, 2006 at 2:42 am
joe says:
“Why is it so hard for you to believe that a woman could have an abortion and not regret it?”
Because abortion does the following:
It grinds against a mothers own natural instinct to protect her offspring. Even animals protect their offspring. So… Even if you don’t believe in God, you still have to wrestle with this conflict.
Abortion actually damages a woman system for a time (In some cases permanently). Believe it or not a woman’s body is NOT designed to have a baby grinded up or poisoned then pulled out of her.
“WHY AGAIN IS THAT PLANNED PARENTHOOD’S FAULT?”
Malpractice. They should have had a test to prove that she was in fact a sociopath before killing her baby.
The reality is that women who have had abortions regret it. If they didn’t regret it, the abortion issue would always be on the front page of every newspaper. All people intuitively know that women who have had abortions are suffering because of it (Even Lauren). They don’t want to add to their misery. If they didn’t hurt, they would not mind pictures of aborted babies. A picture of a dead baby would extract no emotional response from them a picture of a cardboard box. Don’t you agree?
Comment posted May 8th, 2006 at 10:28 am
Lauren says:
coming from a man, how can you possibly begin to understand a woman’s natural instinct? You are a man, you cannot understand.
And not to mention, for people who tout evolution as false, it seems offly silly that you’d be attributing animalistic characteristics to human beings. Joe if I want to have an abortion, I can and it is none of your business. It’s MY life. It’s MY privacy. It’s MY body and you cannot and will not control it. Who the hell do you think you are?
Malpractice? Are you kidding me? What do you want Planned Parenthood to do? Ask her a 100 times? It’s her CHOICE. Sociopath? I’m not sure you understand the meaning of sociopath.
“The reality is that women who have had abortions regret it”
HAHAHAHAH
omg you and your self-fulfilling prophesies
check out imnotsorry.net
Or here’s from religioustolerance.org
Many pro-life groups conclude that a large percentage of women who have undergone an abortion; experience serious depression, and massive feelings of guilt. This has been called “Post-traumatic abortion syndrome,” “Post abortion syndrome,” “Post-abortion stress syndrome,” “PAS,” and “PASS”.
Many pro-choice advocates from secular groups agree that PAS exists, but believe that it is rare.
A major longitudinal study by the American Psychological Associated was unable to detect any evidence of PAS.
A representative of the APA has testified before a committee of the U.S. House of Representatives that PAS does exist, but is less common than post-partum depression after a birth.
A commentary in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) points to PAS as a rare post-abortion phenomenon.
PAS seems to happen primarily to women who, at the time that they had an abortion:
Believed that the fetus was not a human being, and changed their beliefs later.
Believed that the fetus was a human being, but proceeded with the abortion anyway.
Felt heavily pressured, either by family, friends, or circumstances, into having an abortion that the didn’t want.
Did not received adequate counseling and information before the abortion.
Are emotionally unstable, with unstable living conditions.
Felt pressure to have an abortion from their partners or parents.
Chose an abortion because of a genetic problem with the fetus.
Had an abortion after the first trimester.
Had strong religious beliefs against abortion
http://www.webmd.com/content/Article/27/1728_60593.htm
study out this month finds that 80% of women were not depressed after having an abortion. In fact, the rate of depression in the postabortion group was equal to the rate of depression in the general population. As for post-traumatic stress symptoms, the rate was 1% in the postabortion group compared with an estimated 11% in women of the same age in the general population.
The study’s authors say the results agree with previous studies — including one by former Surgeon General C. Everett Koop, MD — showing that severe mental distress following an abortion is rare.
“Most women were satisfied with their decision, believed they had benefited more than had been harmed by their abortion, and would have the abortion again,” writes study author Brenda Major, PhD. “These findings refute claims that women typically regret an abortion.” Major is a professor of psychology at the University of California in Santa Barbara.
For the study, published in the August issue of Archives of General Psychiatry, Major and colleagues interviewed 882 women undergoing abortion. The interviews were conducted prior to abortion, immediately after the procedure, and, for 442 women, again two years later.
Nearly 70% of women reported being satisfied with the decision, and 72% reported more benefit than harm. Of those who reported depression or regret after the abortion, most were depressed or had emotional problems prior to becoming pregnant.
Experts express little surprise at the findings and say this study is more proof that for the majority of women, abortion has few aftereffects.
In an editorial accompanying the study, Nancy Adler, PhD, says that rather than contributing to mental stress, the studies suggest a significant decrease in mental distress and an increase in positive emotions and self-esteem.
Adler, director of health psychology at the University of California in San Francisco, also points out that it is important to look closer at studies that have found psychological harm after abortion to evaluate whether distress really was the result of the abortion, or of other events.
“Experiencing an unwanted pregnancy is itself distressing, as may be the events associated with it. For example, a woman’s partner may respond to the pregnancy by leaving her. The abortion then occurs in the context of loss and abandonment, yet depression or distress following the abortion would be attributed to the procedure,” Adler writes. Facing hostile protesters and intimidation in seeking an abortion also may be factors that heighten risk for psychological problems postabortion in some women, she says.
“Most women fare very well emotionally,” agrees David Grimes, MD. “It’s important to understand that abortion is not a problem, it’s a solution. The problem is the unintended pregnancy. When that is behind them they oftentimes will feel much better. But it is well documented that relief is the overwhelming response of most women.”
Psychological counseling is routine at most facilities that perform abortions.
“It’s mainly a discussion about the risk, benefits and alternatives and then a discussion of contraceptive options after the procedure,” Grimes tells WebMD. Grimes is vice president of biomedical affairs at Family Health International, a nonprofit group in Research Triangle Park, N.C., that helps women and men obtain access to family planning services and methods.
Both Adler and Grimes say the findings highlight the need to identify and provide extra support and counseling to women who may be experiencing depression or other problems prior to an abortion and may be at risk for problems afterwards.
“If they didn’t regret it, the abortion issue would always be on the front page of every newspaper.”
WHAT?!?!
No, as a matter of fact I have friends of mine who have had them and didnt want to be in ap osition to do that, but they had to and DONT regret it. They mind pictures of aborted babies because it is disgusting and msot often you use pictures of third trimester abortions to advance you cause (which account for less than 1% of abortions.) But that’s ok, you people can’t stand the truth, so you would do something like that. Anyways I have to go back to burning my bull on the altar for my lord. My boyfriend shaved his beard, should I smite him?
Comment posted May 8th, 2006 at 11:16 am
Lauren says:
Hey Phil are you a doctor? No I don’t think you are.. I do however think you’re an asshole. Lol.. I dont give a flying f that you are offended.. I’m offended that you are telling me what my prescription means. I have ovarian cysts that are extremely painful so the doctor prescribed me birth control. You know I believe in that funny thing called science.. But it must be fun to dismiss everything outright based on some narrow view of an archaic and non-originally sourced book. You know what I hope that all of you people get cancer and then the doctors refuse you treatment. That would be justice. Pills are unnatural you know!
Comment posted May 8th, 2006 at 11:19 am
Phil says:
Lauren the only time I have mentioned religion on this blog or yours was when I said once that I was not Catholic. You’re stereotyping and assuming things that aren’t true. You’re losing all credibility by coming on here and calling names and making rash assumptions.
Did your doctor talk to you about natural remedies for ovarian cysts? Just a quick google search found this: http://www.altivoe.com/herbs_ovarian_polycystic.html. I went through many health problems growing up, but after making changes in the types of foods I eat (completely vegan now), I’ve been able to eliminate most of those problems.
And for the record, I don’t dismiss doctors based on “an archaic and non-originally sourced book” (following the stereotype pattern, I’m assuming you mean the Bible…?). I dismiss them for the same reason I dismiss politicians - greedy corporations have gotten their greedy hands on them, and made them their puppets. Using things that occur naturally is science! You need to open your eyes to the fact that our society is heavily influenced by major players who seek to make money off deceiving people.
Comment posted May 8th, 2006 at 2:49 pm
rosie says:
Phil,
I liked that link… I’m taking chaste berry not for cysts, but for irregularity after I gave birth and it says it should take 3-6 cycles but I can already tell it’s working. Natural remedies are so underrated. A lot of doctors are getting into natural remedies as well. A lot of drug companies manufacture vitamins though so you really have to know what to buy.
Comment posted May 8th, 2006 at 3:22 pm
joe says:
In response to Laurens insistence that women are happy with their abortions.
“omg you and your self-fulfilling prophesies. check out imnotsorry.net”
Self-fulfilling is the correct word. Lots of women on even that site are clearly in major conflict about their decision.
The front story of their blog today contains an entry, from an 18 year old who feels pressured to have an abortion:
“As much as I don’t approve the idea, I am ultimately going to be a murderer in my eyes and I can’t change anyone’s heart enough to get them to see that with clarity.”
Here is something from one of their newest, it is called “Jane’s Story”
“Last night I dreamed for the first time of the baby I might have had. It was a happy dream. There are probably regrets in any result of an unwanted pregnancy…”
This whole story should be read. Although she is writing it on “imnotsorry.net” it is clear she feels awful about her abortion and reads other stories (like hers) to make herself feel better.
http://imnotsorry.net/lauraE.htm
I also thought this was interesting about your post:
Women who suffer from PAS, “Believed that the fetus was not a human being, and changed their beliefs later. Believed that the fetus was a human being, but proceeded with the abortion anyway.”
Whether a woman suffers from PAS is only a matter of correct information. You mentioned in a previous post that a fertilized human egg is not a baby. There is a problem for you and all women who suffered abortion. It is a baby. Scientifically, legally and religiously. Denial is what they suffer from now, PAS will come once denial is over.
Comment posted May 8th, 2006 at 4:59 pm
Lauren says:
Joe
It’s not like anyonewould be weeeeeeeeeeeee abortion.. But also it’s not like women REGRET their decisions. All medical and scientific surveys prove you wrong not me. But let’s not get all facty. You people like to speak from heart no matter what the facts say.
Joe, whether or not I have had an abortion is none of your god damn business. And don’t tell me that I have either. You dont know me. yOu dont know all those women you speak for either. Who are you to say what a woman does or does not or will not feel without factually basing your claims. You are so uncomfortable with the situation that a woman does not regret her abortion that you will shame them into it. That’s probably why most women who get to that point, because you shame them.. You call them sinners, you call them whores, you call them tramps.. All things I’ve been called at protests by you and your “religious” friends. You all are just a bunch of whackjobs and I take no creedence in what you say.
Mary got pregnant from a kid named Tom who said he was in love
He said don’t worry about a thing baby doll I’m the man you’ve been dreamin’ of
But three months later he said he won’t date her or return her call
And she sweared god damn if I find that man I’m cuttin’ off his balls
And then she heads for the clinic and she gets some static walkin’ through the doors
They call her a killer, and they call her a sinner, and they call her a whore
God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in her shoes
‘Cause then you really might know what it’s like to have to choose
Then you really might know what it’s like
Comment posted May 9th, 2006 at 11:13 am
Lauren says:
Thanks I’ll trust my doctor and not some voodoo witch doctor over the internet.. Anyways I hope you dont fall off the earth anytime soon.. given the fact that it is flat and all
Comment posted May 9th, 2006 at 11:15 am
Phil says:
Those “voodoo witch doctors” have been helping people for thousands of years, and are by far a better alternative for people who seek treatment by natural means, as well as people who don’t have the money to go to a “real doctor.”
Comment posted May 9th, 2006 at 3:25 pm
Phil says:
I had to laugh….Lauren, you chastise Joe for, as a man, purporting to speak for women; but then you went and pasted the words to a song that was written and sung by a man.
Comment posted May 9th, 2006 at 3:28 pm
Lauren says:
OK, well when you get cancer, let me know how often you go to your voodoo doctors.
Comment posted May 9th, 2006 at 4:44 pm
Lauren says:
Isn’t the MAN in Everlast saying in fact how can we ever understand what it’s like… which doesnt break down my point that a man can’t understand, it just further emphasizes it.
Comment posted May 9th, 2006 at 4:48 pm
joe says:
“You dont know me. yOu dont know all those women you speak for either. Who are you to say what a woman does or does not or will not feel without factually basing your claims.”
I was giving those women and you the benefit of the doubt. I refuse to believe that you would still support abortion if you know the FACT that it is a human person that is destroyed with every abortion. It was my attempt at being nice.
I also refuse to believe that you really hope that we all get cancer. You probably wish the very best for us. I certainly wish the best for you and all women who have had abortions.
Comment posted May 9th, 2006 at 7:13 pm
Pansy Moss says:
Lauran says:
“coming from a man, how can you possibly begin to understand a woman’s natural instinct? You are a man, you cannot understand.”
And since you are a woman, you can speak for every woman in saying it is not any woman’s natural instinct to care for her children?
“OK, well when you get cancer, let me know how often you go to your voodoo doctors.
The pill is a noted carcinogen, like cigarettes.
In any event, no one here as far as I can see denies the use of western medicine, just questions using chemicals for treating things that can be dealt with easier and safer, such as diet, exercise. Why pop aspirin for a headache when chances are the reason is due to lack of water consumption? Drink a couple of glasses of water and not only does your headache go away, you did not spend the $$ on chemicals, you did not add unwanted chemicals to your system, and you fixed the problem at the source, not just masked the symptoms. It is the same with using BCPs to mask symptoms in women’s health care. Women should want better from their doctors regardless of your political affiliation than the half assed care of simply prescribing BCPs at every gynecological turn.
The Cancer Treatment Centers rely on both Western medicine as well as nutrition and holistic approaches. I would hope to find a doctor that cured the cancer than rather make the symptoms feel better.
Comment posted May 10th, 2006 at 1:59 am
Phil says:
There are people who have been cured of cancer simply by taking massive doses of Vitamin C intravenously. You can use alternative means to produce the same results as anti-biotics (which often do more harm than good, especially for women). And eliminating dairy will alleviate much of the sinus problems a person might have.
Comment posted May 10th, 2006 at 3:40 am
Lauren says:
Oh Pansy, the irony in your name…
The study you are referencing is not without controversy.
The link between cancer and birth control pills has to do with estrogen hormones prior to 1975 when the hormone dosage in pills was quite high. The estrogen in most birth control pills today is actually quite low. I know, because I take them. My body does not take kindly to high doses of pretty much any sort of medicine, so I have to take low-dose.
So the birth control causes cancer aye what about the fact that birth control actually REDUCES the risk of ovarian cancer! That is actually PROVEN. They aren’t sure about the breast cancer birth control link.
What are you saying anyways that breast cancer is the punishment to women for taking birth control?
Don’t assume either that you know MY natural instinct. I’m not an animal. And anyways, some animal mothers actually KILL their babies and that is well-known.
“Women should want better from their doctors regardless of your political affiliation than the half assed care of simply prescribing BCPs at every gynecological turn.”
What are you even talking about? Let’s see if I say to my gyno, I’m having sex and I don’t want to get pregnant you want her/him to say to me, welp you should pray then? OMG. NO! I want him/her to tell me my options for birth control. If you want someone to give you his/her religious take on what you should do to prevent pregnancy see a priest NOT a scientist. KEEP YOUR RELIGION OUT OF SCIENCE!
OK fine, pansy. I hope that you do get one of those awful diseases and I’d love to see you lament the horrible “drugs”. Whatever dude.
I never take antibiotics unless I get a migrane which unfortunately is every few months. I’m not some person that’s like oops my head hurts time for 8 pills. NO, those people are just as silly as you guys.
You know what, why not just go back to bloodletting? That seemed natural.. let’s do it!
Also other noted carcinogens: lean cuisine boxes, the sun, some sugars, 2nd hand smoke, tanning beds. What do you want me to do, avoid the world entirely? Anyways good luck living in your bubble where you’ll starve and desire something sweet and a good tan. Bye bye
Comment posted May 10th, 2006 at 10:47 am
Pansy Moss says:
”The study you are referencing is not without controversy.”
I did not link to a study.You did not open the link, therefore totally missing the point of the article:
WHO’s cancer research group - the International Agency for Research on Cancer - announced yesterday that it had reclassified the pill and hormone replacement therapy from “possibly carcinogenic to humans” to “carcinogenic to humans”.
“What are you saying anyways that breast cancer is the punishment to women for taking birth control? “
No. No more than walking into a burning building increases your chances of getting burned. Or going to school and working hard to and earning a degree is not “punishment” for going to school. Simply that actions have consequences, some bad, some good.
“Don’t assume either that you know MY natural instinct. I’m not an animal. And anyways, some animal mothers actually KILL their babies and that is well-known.”
I didn’t say I knew how you felt, frankly I don’t care to. This was in response to your argument that a man couldn’t possibly state that women naturally desired to be mothers. And I am simply stating that as a woman, and many other woman I know do desire motherhood. Therefore the notion that the idea comes from a man and therefore is not possible, well is wrong. Regardless how you feel, you cannot speak for every woman and say this man is wrong.
“Women should want better from their doctors regardless of your political affiliation than the half assed care of simply prescribing BCPs at every gynecological turn.”
What are you even talking about?
I am talking about your original argument which you are straying from about using BCP’s to treat such disorders as irregular periods, Ovarian cysts, PCOS, endodemetriosis etc…BCP’s simply fool your body into thinking hormone levels have normaled out, but do not treat the underlying pathology. This is what my OB/gyn told me…It has nothing to do with religion.
OK fine, pansy. I hope that you do get one of those awful diseases and I’d love to see you lament the horrible “drugs”.
You are nasty. No one here has disrespected you, called you names, or wished ill on you, just simpy disagreed. Anyway, I have never seen BCP’s as cancer treatment. Nor have I said anywhere that western medicine is a crock, contrary, I mentioned the Cancer Treatment Centers of America:
Cancer Treatment Centers of America offers patients the most sophisticated forms of surgery, radiation, and chemotherapy in combination with complementary therapies that include; nutrition, spiritual support, mind-body medicine, and naturopathic medicine.
The point is to take responsibilty where you can with your health and use what works, and throw out what doesn’t. Carcinogenic drugs IMO don’t classify as “working”, but like you said, it is much more fulfilled life to live off of frozen food, around smokers with wrinkly, nasty, creppy, but tanned skin from tanning and sitting in the sun too long, and are fat with high blood pressure and diabetes from eating too many sweets and are struggling through breast cancer from taking BCPs and not enjoying their could be children and grandchildren.. I gotta hand it to you, I don’t know what I was thinking-that sounds like a sexy life to me.
I bid you peace as I humbly bow out.
Comment posted May 10th, 2006 at 12:14 pm
Lauren says:
I never ever said motherhood was wrong. I plan to be a mother someday. I do however think that it’s wrong of you to assume that every woman’s natural instinct is to be maternal. I know many smart and benevolent women who have no plans for motherhood. This doesn’t make them weird or strange, but just a person who has different plans. Who are you to judge them for that?
Ummmm.. ok I guess cancer pills trick your cancer too.. in that case in case i get cancer i wont take them … the point that I’m making is that your argument is filled with so many holes I dont know where to begin.
here’s a legit and honest study about BCPs and cancer risk… I know why you didnt post th efact that BCPs actually PREVENT some cancers, it wouldn’t fit your narrow view of the world hence making you a fanatic.
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/91/101127.htm
there’s a legit article…
Cancer Treatment Centers of America offers patients the most sophisticated forms of surgery, radiation, and chemotherapy in combination with complementary therapies that include; nutrition, spiritual support, mind-body medicine, and naturopathic medicine.
HERE”S THE KEY WORDS.. IN COMBINATION.. all of those natural cures are all well and great, but dont you dare, and i mean it dont you dare, question my choice to take birth control pills as a way to decide when I do and dont want to have children. And dont you dare guilt me into some sort of moral argument that I’m ignoring my natural instinct or that oops I might get cancer if I take them.. I dont care if you haven’t called me names. You have insulted my intelligence. That is a MUCH bigger insult than calling you an idiot.
For starters,
I dont smoke. I dont eat a lot of fatty foods. I’ve tanned maybe 20 times my whole life. I put sunscreen on all the time. I dont surround myself with people that smoke, so this idea that I somehow could care less about my well being is wrong. Can you find me this woman who is struggling through breast cancer because of birth control pills? I bet you can’t.
Comment posted May 10th, 2006 at 1:40 pm
Orthodoxy says:
Lauren said: “You have insulted my intelligence. That is a MUCH bigger insult than calling you an idiot.”
Huh?
Anyone else want to point out the logical inconsistency here? I’m done arguing with Lauren. She thinks she wins arguments by berating and insulting people to the point that they won’t say anything anymore.
So long, little girl. Good luck with your plans for motherhood someday. And I mean that. Maybe it’ll change your mind about all that we’ve said; maybe you’ll actually find someone who likes being badgered and demeaned by you to the point that he gives in to marrying you. (Oh, sorry - I guess presumed too much when I tried to pigeonhold parenthood into the framework of marriage. Forgive my capital sin against feminism.)
Anyway, have a good life (he said, as he shook the sand of her city from his sandals).
Comment posted May 10th, 2006 at 2:06 pm
Lauren says:
What are you talking about orthodoxy? Just because I believe in the right to control my body does not mean I dont believe in marriage.. Way to pigeon hole me though.. I just wont find a man who want me to be his subservient baby-maker…. There are plenty of smart men out there that want a girl like me.. I happen to be dating one for three and 1/2 years thank you very much. I’m a spark plug.
Comment posted May 11th, 2006 at 10:13 am
Pansy Moss says:
Lauren,
Not once have you responded to what was being said to you…
5000, peace!
Comment posted May 11th, 2006 at 11:49 am
Lauren says:
what are you talking about pansy? I responded to everything you asked me.. what haven’t i answered?
Comment posted May 11th, 2006 at 12:18 pm
Lucy says:
Isn’t the goal to have the anti abortionists stop abortions? I had previously been informed that by any means neccessary was acceptable. Certainly the woman that attacked me seemed to be opperating under that impression.
Comment posted June 3rd, 2006 at 1:29 am
Lucy says:
Somebody please define life.
Comment posted June 3rd, 2006 at 7:51 pm
John says:
Lucy said: ‘Somebody please define life.”
See here. (Scroll down to comment #40.)
Comment posted June 5th, 2006 at 1:53 pm
John says:
Lucy said: “Isn’t the goal to have the anti abortionists stop abortions? I had previously been informed that by any means neccessary was acceptable.”
Lucy,
“Previously informed” by whom?
Certainly not us.
Comment posted June 5th, 2006 at 1:57 pm
rosie says:
I think she is refering to the roe vs. wade article at the top of the blog
Comment posted June 5th, 2006 at 3:37 pm
Lucy says:
but i thought this was not black and white? and whatever it takes to save a baby is worth it for me! these exemptions based on 2004 statistics would ahve allowed 24 abortions and prevented 768! that is huge! Though I am horrified about the 24 that die, at least 768 beautiful babies wuold have keot their lives! gotta go as well! talk with ya later!
Comment posted March 14th, 2006 at 8:13 pm
It’s the 103rd post if you’re interested. I believe 104 contains the response.
Comment posted June 6th, 2006 at 10:10 pm
Lucy says:
Joe says:
“Why is it so hard for you to believe that a woman could have an abortion and not regret it?”
Because abortion does the following:
It grinds against a mothers own natural instinct to protect her offspring. Even animals protect their offspring. So… Even if you don’t believe in God, you still have to wrestle with this conflict.
Abortion actually damages a woman system for a time (In some cases permanently). Believe it or not a woman’s body is NOT designed to have a baby grinded up or poisoned then pulled out of her.
“WHY AGAIN IS THAT PLANNED PARENTHOOD’S FAULT?”
Malpractice. They should have had a test to prove that she was in fact a sociopath before killing her baby.
The reality is that women who have had abortions regret it. If they didn’t regret it, the abortion issue would always be on the front page of every newspaper. All people intuitively know that women who have had abortions are suffering because of it (Even Lauren). They don’t want to add to their misery. If they didn’t hurt, they would not mind pictures of aborted babies. A picture of a dead baby would extract no emotional response from them a picture of a cardboard box. Don’t you agree?
No, I don’t agree. All women that have abortions do not regret it. I can prove it.
Second, no, all people do not know intuitively that women regret abortions. The lack of the issue on the front page of newspapers is not evidence of this. There are a lot of things that don’t make the fronts of newspapers, or inside the newspapers at all. This is evidence of either what the newspapers are aware of, or of what they believe they can sell.
I don’t know, I mean, Peta and the rest of the animal rights activists are constantly passing out pictures of bunnies that have been scarred by bic or whoever it is they’re after this week, I think it’s gillette usually. Once they passed out flyers to children whose mothers were wearing fur coats that said your mommy is a murderer. It doesn’t mean that buying fur coats is wrong and yet nobody wants that flyer in their childs hand, crazy isn’t it. Nobody wants to see the damaged bunny, yet Shaving cream is needed isn’t it. The pictures mean nothing. Sorry.
Oh, and testing women to see if they are sociopaths? Are you serious? Malpractice?
Comment posted June 6th, 2006 at 10:20 pm
Lucy says:
Joe says:
Lauren writes, “Naral and Planned Parenthood are two of the best things to ever happen to women.”
I dated a woman who put her trust in Planned Parenthood. After her abortion she spent four seeing a therapist because of it. I found out only after we went to a family party together, out of the blue she just started sobbing uncontrollably and said, “Why would God ever let me have a baby when I killed mine!”
Where was their compassion? Did Planned Parenthood provide her with the therapy? Did they tell her there is a risk she would feel so consumed with guilt after murdering her own child? Nope!
“Best thing”… I don’t think so.
No, Planned Parenthood doesn’t have a standing tradition of calling women who have abortions murderers, or whores, or assuring them that they still might be saved from the fires of hell. You’re right, it’s probably their fault.
Comment posted June 6th, 2006 at 10:23 pm
Lucy says:
Why would a doctor prescribe hormonal birth control to you for a medical problem? Maybe because the the pharmaceutical corporations do not profit off telling you to try making changes in you diet (likewise, they don’t profit off teaching women how to observe their body’s own natural fertility cycle). Many women who have had problems with hormone fluctuations have seen great results by eating macrobiotic meal plans. I think 90% of what people use conventional medicine for is uneccessary, and there are natural methods of treating those problems. See a naturopath, they may be able to help you find a natural solution to whatever is wrong.
One can probably find a natural solution for almost anything. Generally the ones the Doctors are prescribing work better. I say this as a person who has investigated almost every natural remedy for every problem I have ever occurred. I figure somewhere along the line it might work better and be cheaper. For what it is worth, Banana is great for the skin. Beyond that, I have very little success topping medical science, which probably doesn’t surprise most people. I’m a little odd sometimes. Green Tea, they just found out, has little to know medicinal qualities. I give personally. I’ll take the pill, with all of its side effects. Afterall, I don’t like the side effects of my inhaler and I have to use that.
Comment posted June 6th, 2006 at 10:32 pm
Lucy says:
Phil says:
There are people who have been cured of cancer simply by taking massive doses of Vitamin C intravenously. You can use alternative means to produce the same results as anti-biotics (which often do more harm than good, especially for women). And eliminating dairy will alleviate much of the sinus problems a person might have.
Did I see the word malpractice thrown around on here somewhere? I mean, Cancer. The cure for Cancer is not an overdoes of Vitamin C. If it worked that’s great, however, I think that advising this over traditional methods…along with, sure…instead of…I don’t think that is very responsible.
Comment posted June 6th, 2006 at 10:36 pm
Pro-Life Hotline » Blog Archive » Is Planned Parenthood Lying about Intimidation by Pro-Lifers? says:
[…] Calling Their Bluff—John Jansen blog post on his investigation […]
Comment posted December 9th, 2008 at 3:02 pm