• « Previous Post
• Next Post »
• 

31 Comments on “Hate Mail and a Really Disgusting Condom Ad”

Please Note: Visitor comments do not necessarily reflect the views of Generations for Life or our parent organization, the Pro-Life Action League.

1. mary kay says:

   If you hadn’t told me that that was a condom ad I would have thought it was a pro-life at…you know, look what you’re doing to our children?

   I wonder if the ad-men realize how absolutely beautifully this fits into our agenda. Condoms and birth control and abortion kill children, not blobs of cells…

   mk

   Comment posted August 11th, 2006 at 10:03 pm

2. mary kay says:

   Abortion Business Closed for Good Where Baby Found Born Alive, Killed
   Email this article
   Printer friendly page

   by Steven Ertelt
   LifeNews.com Editor
   August 10, 2006
   Hialeah, FL (LifeNews.com) — A Florida abortion business where a baby was apparently born alive following a botched abortion has closed for good. Local health officials in this Miami-area city revoked the license of the A GYN Diagnostic Center abortion facility at a city council meeting on Tuesday.

   Late last month, local police investigated the abortion center after reports surfaced that a dead baby’s body was located there.

   According to witnesses, an unnamed young woman who was 23 weeks into her pregnancy went to the A Gynecologists Diagnostic Center abortion facility for an abortion.

   Police say the 18 year-old returned the next day complaining of sever stomach pains. Abortion facility staff told her the abortion practitioner was not available and that she would have to wait.

   After being taken to a waiting area, the woman allegedly gave birth to the baby that she thought had been aborted the day before.

   The city was preparing to take action on the license suspension but before it could do so the owners of the abortion facility surrendered its license to operate to the state’s Agency for Health Care Administration, according to the Miami Herald.

   Giving up the license means the abortion facility cannot practice medicine in the state John Travers, the city’s licensing administrator, told the Herald.

   Officials say an anonymous caller, who they believe is an employee at the abortion business, alerted them to the birth and the infanticide of the child afterwards. However, when police arrived at the abortion facility, the baby’s body was missing.

   They came back a second time and found the dead baby in a biohazard bag. Detectives say abortion facility staff likely moved the baby’s body the first time to avoid detection.

   The baby was reportedly 12 inches long and weighed 2-3 pounds. Medical examiners performed an autopsy on the baby, but it may take weeks for the results to be released.

   Hialeah police and the state attorneys office are continuing to investigate the potential murder of the newborn baby.

   “The State Attorney’s Office is still reviewing the case, along with the Medical Examiner,” Mark Overton, Hialeah’s Deputy Police Chief told the Herald. “We are awaiting test results. Once they are back, they will be making a decision on what charges will be filed, if any.”

   Regina DeMoraes-Millan, a lawyer for the abortion business, told the Miami Herald at the time that no crime was committed and that the teen had a successful abortion and no complications.

   ”My clients run an abortion clinic. It’s a legal business,” she said.

   Belkis Gonzalez of Miramar, Florida, owns the abortion facility and another in Miramar, which has run afoul of state regulations on numerous occasions. It was closed last year after three employees were found to be unlicensed.

   I know this is pertitnent, but I wanted to get it in here…

   MK

   Comment posted August 11th, 2006 at 10:34 pm

3. mary kay says:

   ooops! I meant I know this impertitnent (to the topic of this site)but I wanted to get it in here…

   MK

   Comment posted August 11th, 2006 at 10:35 pm

4. mary kay says:

   Tiller Narrowly Escaped Indictment, Grand Jury Source Reveals
   August 10th, 2006

   Anonymous source tells Operation Rescue what really happened to late-term abortion victim Christin Gilbert and why the Grand Jury investigating George Tiller narrowly failed to indict.

   Wichita, KS – Operation Rescue has interviewed a source inside the grand jury that investigated late-term abortionist George Tiller for the abortion death of 19-year old Christin Gilbert. That source, who spoke with Operation Rescue on condition of anonymity, has revealed new information about what really happened to Christin Gilbert, and why the grand jury narrowly failed to indict Tiller in the young Down Syndrome girl’s death.

   Operation Rescue will be publishing this information in four parts. Today’s segment is titled “What Really Happened to Christin Gilbert?” It reveals the horrific ordeal endured by the Texas teen, including a bombshell revelation that the misuse of the controversial RU 486 abortion drug may have contributed to her death.

   Part Two will take an inside look at what happened during the grand jury process and why jurors were left with frustrations about stonewalling and unanswered questions that prevented them from being able to issue an indictment. The source revealed to Operation Rescue that Tiller missed being indicted on 4 counts of negligence by only one vote.

   Part Three of this report will explore what the source called a “fraternity” that has covered up for George Tiller, even in some cases in violation of their own policies. That group includes the Kansas State Board of Healing Arts, the Sedgwick County District Attorney’s office, and Gov. Kathleen Sebelius.

   Part Four will explore the unanswered questions and conflicting testimony that leaves little doubt that a cover-up is in place, and will take a look at what can be done about this now obvious miscarriage of justice.

   PART ONE: “What Really Happened to Christin Gilbert?”

   Christin Gilbert was 19 years old. She had Down Syndrome, and had recently graduated from the Special Education Program of her hometown high school in Keller, Texas. She lived in a quiet neighborhood with her mother, father, and older sister. Christin loved sports and was a regular at the Keller Special Olympics where she once won a gold medal in the softball throw. Christin had served as batgirl and team inspiration for the Keller Girl’s High School Soft Ball team that won the State Championship in 2003.

   But in spite of her seemingly happy life and loving personality, Christin had a dark secret. She was the victim of sexual abuse that resulted in pregnancy sometime in 2004. Her parents’ decision to abort Christin’s baby – in the third trimester of pregnancy – led to Christin’s death in Wichita, Kansas, on January 13, 2005.

   A complaint was filed with the Kansas State Board of Healing Arts asking for abortionist George R. Tiller to be disciplined for Christin’s death, but the Board refused to take action against him after Gov. Kathleen Sebelius intervened in the case.

   Because of this, a grassroots citizens group gathered signatures, as allowed by Kansas Law, and successfully convened a grand jury to investigate possible criminal wrongdoing in Gilbert’s death. It was announced on July 31, 2006, that the grand jury had returned no indictments and had been dismissed.

   Anonymous Source Comes Forward

   But now a source inside the grand jury process wants to talk. This person wants people to know the truth about what happened to Christin and the frustration faced by the grand jury that was denied the information they needed to make proper decisions.

   According to the source, the grand jury had access to a large amount of documents in the case, including written reports from George Tiller and numerous other individuals. They were able to interview many people associated with Christin’s death, but were denied access to others.

   Suspicious Behavior

   The source tells Operation Rescue that from the outset, there were some concerns about what was going on within Christin’s family. Christin had the mental capacity of a six year old, according to testimony given to the grand jury. Why did it take so long for Christin’s family to discover her pregnancy?

   There was some evasion of this question by the family. The mother indicated that she just thought Christin was putting on weight, but given the fact that she would have to be helped with the use of feminine products each month, that explanation raised more questions than it answered.

   Christin’s mother, Paula Gilbert, indicated that one day she noticed a “pooch” on Christin’s stomach as she was getting into the bathtub. The next day, she took Christin to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Dallas, Texas, where her pregnancy was confirmed to be in the 28th week. They were told an abortion that late could not be done there, and referred the family to Women’s Health Care Services, a late-term abortion clinic run by George Tiller in Wichita, Kansas.

   “Disregarding the situation” with Christin, according to the source, the family went forward with plans for a vacation cruise that was scheduled to leave that Sunday. The following week, the family returned to Texas on Sunday, January 9, 2005, and drove on that afternoon to Wichita, Kansas, to get Christin an abortion. They checked into the La Quinta Hotel, which at that time had an arrangement with Tiller to provide rooms for his late-term abortion patients and some of his staff. The La Quinta Corporation has since terminated those arrangements.

   Troubled Abortionist Neuhaus Resurfaces

   The family took Christin to Women’s Health Care Services on Monday morning, January 10, 2005, where she was evaluated by a “psychologist,” Dr. Kristin Neuhaus, of Lawrence, Kansas. According to Kansas law, post-viability abortions may only take place when there is an agreement from a second doctor who is not professionally or financially associated with the abortionist. Neuhaus has an arrangement with Tiller to evaluate all his late-term patients at the Women’s Health Care Services office when they first come in on Mondays or Tuesdays.

   Neuhaus is in fact a former abortionist who came under fire in 2001 for aborting a woman who had withdrawn her consent. She once served as the abortionist at Central Women’s Services, the Wichita abortion mill that closed in June and is now owned by Operation Rescue. Neuhaus closed her Lawrence, Kansas, abortion mill in 2002, amid mounting scandal and debt.

   “Because of all her professional problems, Neuhaus pretended to get out of the abortion business, but in reality she just changed jobs,” said Operation Rescue President Troy Newman. “Now, instead of killing the babies with her own hands, she is earning her blood money by signing their death warrants.”

   A member of the grand jury asked Neuhaus if there was ever a time that she did not sign off on an abortion when asked. Neuhaus pled the Fifth Amendment and refused to answer that question.

   After the evaluation, the Gilbert family directly paid Newhaus with a personal check for her services. A grand jury member asked to see the cancelled check and Neuhaus’ records, but was told by prosecutor Ann Swegle that it would take an “act of God” to get those documents.

   Of the arrangement between Neuhaus and Tiller, the source said, “It was wishy-washy to be honest with you.”

   Carhart Begins the Abortion

   Christin was then administered the digoxin shot to her baby’s heart by Nebraska abortionist LeRoy Carhart, who is employed by Tiller and works at the Wichita abortion clinic 1-2 weeks per month. Her cervix was filled with laminaria and she was sent back to her hotel. Christin did not eat dinner that evening.

   The next morning, Christin was loaded into the family van where she expelled her dead baby on the way to the abortion clinic.

   “She passed the fetus coming into the clinic in the family van and we couldn’t get anyone to even talk about that,” the source said.

   Once at the clinic, a D&C procedure was done on Christin and a “tear in the uterus” was sutured. According to the source, the grand jury could not get anyone to testify about that, and were unable to get questions answered about whether or not this was problematic.

   Misuse of RU 486 Revealed

   At this point, Christin was administered the abortion drug RU 486. This drug is approved for medical abortion in pregnancies prior to the 6th week of gestation. The drug has been responsible for at least six deaths in the United States since 2001.

   The source told Operation Rescue that RU 486 was meant to be an “insurance policy” to make sure everything had been expelled from the uterus. But when the grand jury compared Christin’s symptoms to the symptoms of other women who have died from RU 486, the source said that the symptoms were “identical to a ‘T.’”

   There is no doubt in the source’s mind that this off-the-label, unapproved misuse of RU 486 contributed to Christin’s death.

   Other “Issues” and Fifth Amendment Stonewalling

   There were apparently “issues” with Christin’s condition on this second day, and the clinic staff indicated she should stay in Wichita for another night. Those issues were never fully explained.

   To the frustration of some of the grand jury members, the abortion process was not explained, and they did not fully understand the procedure or terminology used when describing the medical intervention.

   Clinic workers, with the exception of one, pled the Fifth Amendment. Tiller and Carhart never testified. Technical loopholes in the law were fully exploited by Tiller’s high-priced legal team to prevent him from ever facing the grand jury. Carhart evaded his subpoena by remaining in Nebraska.

   “We couldn’t make decisions, because we couldn’t get anyone involved to speak,” the source said.

   Undocumented Treatment

   After Christin returned to the hotel on Tuesday night, her condition began to deteriorate. She was taken to the abortion clinic on Wednesday morning and treated for severe dehydration. However, the clinic staff made no documentation of her treatment, or how much fluids were administered to her. That lack of documentation proved to be a prominent factor on the day Christin died.

   The Mystery of the Missing Abortionist

   Wednesday evening, the family went out for dinner, but Christin would not eat. Sometime that evening, Christin was cramping, bleeding, and vomiting, at times passing out. Between midnight and 4 AM – there is a discrepancy in the testimony – the family called Tiller employee Cathy Reavis who was staying at the La Quinta on call. Reavis is Tiller’s longest employee, having worked for him for 29 years. Reavis is Tiller’s “head nurse” but she is not licensed, and neither are any other Tiller employees.

   “They get six weeks training,” said the source. “That’s nothing.”

   Christin was placed into a warm bath, which may have contributed to extra bleeding and infection. Reavis then helped get Christin cleaned up and back to bed.

   Reavis called abortionist LeRoy Carhart, who was supposedly also staying at the La Quinta and was on call for emergencies. Carhart never responded and never saw Christin at the hotel. Testimony was inconsistent as to the whereabouts of Carhart and why he did not respond to calls for help.

   Reavis, who was the only Tiller employee to offer testimony without pleading the Fifth Amendment, claims she returned to her hotel room and “overslept,” not arriving at the clinic until the ambulance was taking Christin away to the hospital.

   The next morning, Christin’s family tried to get her ready to go to the clinic. Christin fainted and could not be revived. Although the grand jury was told that the family had been informed that they could dial 911 if they believed they needed help, her family did not do that. Instead, they loaded their bleeding, unconscious daughter on a luggage rack and wheeled her to the family van. Testimony was inconsistent as to whether Christin was able to sit up in the vehicle on her own during the 5-minute ride to the clinic.

   The source was clearly disturbed by the attitude of the family toward Christin and stated, “The normal reaction was not how they reacted.”

   Information Blackout

   Christin arrived at the clinic and walked inside “with assistance.” Once inside, Christin “crashed,” meaning her heart and respiration ceased.

   For the next 40-45 minutes, there are no notations in the medical records about the care and treatment of Christin Gilbert. There are reports that she was “bagged” but this seemed curious to the source since the clinic had the capability of administering oxygen.

   The family indicated that they were placed in a separate room and had no idea what was going on with their daughter.

   Tiller, who was busy with another abortion when Christin arrived at the clinic, “poked his head in” to see what was going on. He later reported to the family that Christin was being cared for, but did not reveal to them the fact that she was technically dead.

   After approximately 45 minutes, a call was finally placed to 911. Tiller employee Marguerite Reed was evasive with the 911 personnel and placed them on hold for 45 seconds while she walked back to find out why an ambulance was needed.

   Possible Perjury

   Reed testified that she was met in a hallway by Cathy Reavis, who had earlier said she had overslept and did not arrive at the clinic until the ambulance was taking Christin to the hospital. Photographs taken at the clinic by pro-life sidewalk counselor Judi Weldy clearly show Reavis’ vehicle in the parking lot when the ambulance arrived at the clinic. Did Reavis commit perjury by lying to the Grand Jury about not being present at the clinic when Christin lay dying?

   Comment posted August 11th, 2006 at 10:40 pm

5. mary kay says:

   But no one is forced to have abortions, remember? I know, I know…would it have been right to force her to have the baby? Well, I bet if Christin could talk, she’d have preferred having the baby to having that abortion. But of course, she can’t talk…because she is very dead.

   MK

   Comment posted August 11th, 2006 at 10:42 pm

6. June says:

   Wait…how does using condoms kill children?

   Comment posted August 12th, 2006 at 1:28 am

7. Michael-2 says:

   June …how does using condoms kill children?

   Unless you strangle or sufficate a child with one it does not.

   However, it tends to put you in a frame of mind whereby since you now consider fertility something of a defect to be treated even if temporarily, you can easily consider the result or fruit of fertility a defect/parasite.

   Take Care

   Comment posted August 12th, 2006 at 5:06 am

8. Lucy says:

   Step 1: Take steps to eliminate the mindset that makes being a victim of sexual abuse Christins dark secret.

   What in the world gives abusers the right to assume that they have their victims protection. It is far to easy and to common to assume that the victim should bare the secret. Taking steps to eliminate this being Christins dark secret and turning it instead to her abusers dark secret will make a great deal of headway.

   It is my opinion that one of the key ingrediants to changing the owner of the dark secret is empowering women. Let’s make it so that women know that no body is going to challenge their right to defend their lives and their rights to them. This is going to mean removing womens sense of shame that has been attached to being women. This means that women are going to have to be free to speak of themselves in terms of sex. They are going to have to feel free to speak up about sex they did not want. They are going to therefore need to feel free to speak up about the sex they wanted.

   Women need to be free to explore the idea of themselves as a sexual being. If they understand that they have value and can use it as they choose, they will be far more open when things are occurring that they do not want to happen to them. They are more likely to feel as though they have a right to say no if they feel they have a right to say yes. They are more likely to feel they can speak up if they do not fear that someone will think that they are lying. The fear that someone might think they wanted to will be gone.

   I’m sure someone has a real good reason for why empowering women by giving them control over their body is bad. Can’t wait to hear it.

   Comment posted August 12th, 2006 at 6:37 pm

9. Lucy says:

   Mary Kay,
   I don’t think that it is fair to say one way or another what Christin wanted considering the circumstances. I was looking for the story in a place that wasn’t Anti-Abortion. I can’t seem to find one. I would have thought that someone at a more right leaning media source such as Fox might have picked it up. I have had no such luck.

   It is the mention of RU 486 that raised an eyebrow. The fact that only the source is convinced, and without any apparent evidence for support.

   Women who choose abortions do so knowing the risks involved. At least thinking women do so knowing the risks involved. I had to sign a piece of paper that said I might die. I knew the risks.

   While I certainly wish that she had not died, I can’t help but wonder what would have changed if 911 had been called instead of ‘being rolled out on a luggage rack’ what is that. Who was her abuser anyway? Usually it is someone close to the victim. It doesn’t strike me that people who ‘rolled her out on a luggage rack’ instead of calling 911 can reasonably be classified as people who were looking out for her best interest. I just wonder what the other side has to say regarding this whole horrible mess.

   It would seem to me that the poor young woman might have been a victim of nearly everyone involved from the sound of the story.

   It is interesting though that anti-abortionists first create situations that intimidate trained professionals from helping women in need of abortion, and then gasp in horror when women are left to turn to those available. Which, there are still trained professionals available. Yet, you support legislation that would deter further trained professionals, and endanger more women.

   It isn’t really an honest estimate of the situation to say that trained professionals aren’t always willing to get shot at by anti’s, and therefore legal abortion is a bad idea. Shooting trained professionals and bombing clinics is a bad idea.

   Comment posted August 12th, 2006 at 6:55 pm

10. mary kay says:

    Isn’t it possible that legal abortion, shooting trained professionals AND bombing clinics are a bad idea. Why does one negate the other? If I’m against bombing clinics must I automatically be for abortion? If I’m against abortion must I automatically be for bombing clinics and shooting professionals?

    MK

    Comment posted August 13th, 2006 at 6:15 am

11. mary kay says:

    Lucy,

    May I ask you something? I am asking sincerely, so don’t take it wrong.

    Why did you come to this site (not that I’m complaining - I love talking with you and have gained much insight from our conversations) but I don’t understand what you were hoping to achieve by entering these discusssions. Were you hoping to change our minds? Were you hoping to change your own? I could even understand if it were out of curiosity (you know, like “know your enemy”…) but so often you are treated unkindly and I can’t imagine myself returning over and over again to be abused unless I had a very compelling reason. I don’t think we are cruel people, but like you, we get frustrated and often react instead of thinking out our answes. I wonder if some of that frustration comes from not understanding the direction that this whole fiasco is supposed to be going in. At this point we know what you think and understand why you think it, but we believe you are wrong. You know what we think and understand why, but believe we are wrong. We’re not going to suddenly say “aha, she’s right! We were wrong all along”. You’re not going to suddenly say “aha, they were right! I do feel guilty. Abortion is evil” so what is the point? I don’t want you to stop coming! That’s not what I’m saying. I really want to give you what you are looking for, but I don’t know what that is. Please help me to understand.

    Truly trying,
    MK

    Comment posted August 13th, 2006 at 6:54 am

12. mary kay says:

    Lucy,

    As long as I am asking questions, puzzle me this…

    If Lauren was one of us and disagreed with you, how long would you put up with her abusiveness. I mean really, calling one of us a pile of crap, calling me her rapist and tormentor when I offered friendship…I just think that considering how upset you get with lesser offenses from us, that you’d be livid if Lauren were addressing her comments to you instead of us. Am I wrong?
    If I’m right, then why don’t you address her beligerence like you address ours? When Quinn or Michael 2 say something particularly nastyto your or Lauren, John and I have spoken up and chastised them. Even when we agree with the point that they are trying to make. Even though we are on the same side. But you never correct Lauren for being unkind (and she really crosses the line sometimes). Why is that? Is it because she is the only one on your team? She idolizes you, so she would take criticism (constructive criticism, mind you)from you much better than from us…

    Just a thought…

    MK

    Comment posted August 13th, 2006 at 7:00 am

13. mary kay says:

    Lucy,

    #
    Lucy says:

    . I was looking for the story in a place that wasn’t Anti-Abortion. I can’t seem to find one.

    If you type “Christin Gilbert” abortion in your search engine you’ll get a ton of hits including the Kaieser Foundation…

    MK

    Comment posted August 14th, 2006 at 7:02 am

14. mary kay says:

    http://www.kaisernetwork.org/Daily_reports/rep_index.cfm?DR_ID=37048

    Comment posted August 14th, 2006 at 7:21 am

15. Young Christian Woman says:

    Lucy:

    I agree that abuse is the fault of the abuser. It’s hard to think that anyone would believe otherwise. I completely agree that the actions of her family seem suspect. I got no impression that Christin understood her situation, much less gave approval for an abortion. I think, indeed, that she should have had more control over her body. What would have given you to think that anyone would disagree with these things?

    Usually in cases like this it is the abuser who arranges for the abortion and presses the abused person into it. They do this not out of a respect for the woman, but to cover their crime and further control her body. Abortion providers often help these abusers bring women to the clinic posing as concerned relatives, and vow to the women not to tell parents or authorities. That’s not helping anyone except the “clinic” and the abuser. Neither you nor I know what Christin would have decided if she had been allowed to decide. However, it is clear that getting an abortion did not get her the help she obviously needed.

    Comment posted August 14th, 2006 at 7:30 am

16. Lauren says:

    Abusiveness? Are you freaking kidding me lady? What have i said that has really, honestly hurt you? Lucy and I are “pro-abortion” murderers as far as you are concerned. And I honestly feel as though you in many ways are a rapist. If Satan came speaking softly to me and offering friendship, does that mean I should accept? Do you not understand that in many ways this website offers many offers of friendship like a cult? Seriously, I was thinking about that the other day. This site has a very cult-like quality. It will beat you til your down, bring you up, and invite you into the congratulatory fold once you agree. marginalize, marginalize, Conform, conform, conform, accept, accept, accept, now blind yourself to reality, don’t face relativism, do everything in extremes, and we will love you. i don’t want that kind of love, and if I do say so myself, I’m sure Lucy doesn’t either.

    Also, I don’t think it’s a lesser offense to condescend mary kay. I’ve discussed it with others who visit this site but dont write, they say you are extremely condescending and try to pretend to be my mother. i am not an abuser. I’ve been abused, and in many ways, you make me feel like I’m being abused again. And so again, I retaliate. You may not like it, you may even find it distasteful, but I’d like to say much of what I say is genuine anger and hurt. Why is it that I must mince my words if you make me feel like I’m being raped? Why should I condescend in a pretty way as you do to me? I’m not going to. You’re attempting to violate my rights. You are trying to control my body. I find that to be a much greater physical offense, than my words.

    Lucy and I have different tactics sometimes. I respect her and I think to some degree she respects me. Quinn and Michael 2 don’t say nasty things to us. They say stupid things. They say extreme representations of your views. Basically I think they show many of the latent and real feelings of the pro-life movement, and that is why your group has its reputation. This reputation is militant, ultra-religious, right-wing, angry, and at times, promotes violence. As for the rest of you, I’m not sure if you really are kind or are wolves in sheeps’ clothing. Either way, the aim is the same and is pretty much of equal distaste to me.

    So I ask you mary kay, what have I crossed th eline on? Have I crossed the line with my genuine anger and hurt? Have I crossed the line in basically accusing you of being the rapist and tormentor, which I genuinely see you as? Why is it so hard for you to believe that a young woman such as myself values her body and the right to make decisions with it, might get a little upset when you are actively attempting to deny her that very right? You want roe v. wade overturned. You wan’t abortion to be illegal, 1st, 2nd and 3rd trimester. You want women once their pregnant to remain that way. You want us to embrace our inner mother, our only true self according to you. You are attempting to make life-changing decisions for me. And I call you a piece of crap. I’m sorry, but I dont think the two even come in the realm of comparison.

    I idolize lucy? I dont think holding mutual respect for a person, makes you idolize them? I’ve gotten emails from girls who have come to this site, saying “thank you” for sticking up for their choice. They are not strong enough to write on here themselves, for fear that you may try to mother them or Quinn will come on here with his shadow government business.

    On a similar note, I’ve never heard Heywood Jablowme, but that’s pretty hilarious. Ahhh, it cracked me up. The pains people go to.

    Comment posted August 14th, 2006 at 8:36 am

17. mary kay says:

    Lauren,

    I have never lured you into our “cult”. I have never called you a name. And I, like you have feelings. I also feel very passionately about this topic. If you for one minute would try to see this through our eyes as I have painstakingly tried to see it through yours, you would understand that we believe human beings are being murdered and we find that to be a greater offense than having one of your so-called rights violated. By your reasoning that would give me the right to call you names, degrade you and make fun of you…but I don’t. I stick to the topic and address your speech when I find it offensive (not the ideas behind your speech, but the speech itself). If I speak passionaltely then I am a bully and a terrorist, If I try to be kinder then I am a manipulator. YOU, not I, expressed (albeit a looooooong time ago) a desire to learn and to be open. But you don’t want to learn, you just want to hear your own voice. I respect everyone on this site, even YOU, (although you make it all but impossible) and I must say that lately I have been losing what little respect I had for you…NOT BECCAUSE OF YOUR VIEWS ON ABORTION, BUT BECAUSE OF YOUR IMMATURE MANNER OF EXPRESSING YOURSELF.

    Why can’t you see that you can attack our cause without attacking the person. I HAVE NEVER CALLED YOU A MURDERER. NEVER. NEVER. NEVER. I HAVE CALLED ABORTION MURDER, BUT I DO NOT, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER JUDGE YOU OR YOUR MOTIVES.

    I wish you were capable of doing the same. But apparantly you can’t. I don’t want to be your mother, but I do have a very mothering nature. And like any good mother, when I see childlike behavior I bring the child’s attention to it. If you weren’t acting so childish you wouldn’t think of me as mothering you - you would see me as an equal and realize that I was trying to show you respect. If I were your mother I would put you over my knee and spank you. I would also be ashamed of you. Not for standing up for what you believe, but for belittling other people because your imagination is so small that you can’t think of any other way of getting your opinions across.

    You don’t want to be friends? That, as everything else, my foot-stamping, pouting dear, is YOUR CHOICE. NOT MINE. But I will abide by it. Let me know if you change your mind. Until then, consider this conversation on hold.

    I ask you, as I asked Lucy, although I asked her for very different reasons, Why are you here? Did your abusers teach you so well, that the only way to get your point across is to be abusive? If so they should be commended because they did a wonderful job.

    I will continue to pray for you. Pray that you learn how to treat people (all people, not just those that agree with you) and that somehow, someday, we can continue with this conversation. Until then, peace and God be with you…

    MK

    Comment posted August 14th, 2006 at 9:01 am

18. Pansy Moss says:

    #
    Mary kay says:

    Lucy,

    May I ask you something? I am asking sincerely, so don’t take it wrong.

    Why did you come to this site (not that I’m complaining - I love talking with you and have gained much insight from our conversations) but I don’t understand what you were hoping to achieve by entering these discusssions. Were you hoping to change our minds?

    I asked her the same question. Maybe you can find her answer there.

    Comment posted August 14th, 2006 at 10:12 am

19. mary kay says:

    http://www.therebelution.com/2005/08/you-read-it-right-complete-blog.html

    apparently Lauren never read this either. Perhaps these guys can give her a few pointers and decency in blogging…Thanks.

    I was on vacation when you asked Lucy that question. However I am still not clear on what she means. Did she mean she was hoping to enlighten us and change our minds? Maybe she’ll answer again and give us a new insight…

    MK

    Comment posted August 14th, 2006 at 10:26 am

20. mary kay says:

    Pansy,

    Are you getting tired of getting beat up too? Sometimes I get so confused as to what the heck I’m doing here.

    The arguments are the same, over and over…nothing new…not a word.

    The other side can’t realize that we don’t want to “force” them to do anything. That may be the result, but not the intent. We just want to save babies.

    Our side just keeps repeating that life begins at conception and we believe the law should be on our side.

    Then the other side says, quit trying to force yourself on us.

    Am I nuts, or did these guys come here voluntarily? I would be just as happy reading John and Eric’s new articles and going on my merry way. I don’t really see the point of all this name calling.

    Lucy makes some interesting points, and although I disagree with every word of it, at least it’s not abusive. But I still don’t understand what we all hope to accomplish. Obviously we can’t “prove” our side. They can’t either. So what is the Point?

    My head hurts. My heart hurts. I’m tired. Maybe I just need a break. Or not. I don’t know. But it sure is nice to vent and know that you aren’t going to get called some nasty ol’ name because of it!

    Thanks,
    MK

    Comment posted August 14th, 2006 at 10:33 am

21. Pansy Moss says:

    MK,

    I agree which is why I stopped commenting a few days ago. I didn’t even read the repsonses to my last few comments. I don’t mind the differing opinions. I have a problem with foul language and abuse. I have lived in a third world country that was mostly Hindu and Muslim, I lived among the Amish, I used to go away to Jewish camp with my Jewish cousins. I have pro-choice friends and we just agree to disagree after we hear each other out (oddly they never say I am abusive for disagreeing with them). I also know many pro-life Catholics I do not get along with for the same reasons as here, they are mean, abusive people.

    Respect has nothing to do with your religious or political affiliation. I would never go to a blog that was pro-choice and tell them to “blow me”. And I tire of the whole idea that we should not say we believe abortion is murder because it might hurt someone’s feelings, yet the same people can call us slave masters, Nazis, facists,rapists, bigots cuss and use the “n” word because we care about the feelings of the unborn means we do not have any feelings at all, or we should not be given the same benefit.

    Anyway, I am tired of the debate aspect. I would rather just rwad the articles like you said. Leave the rest to people with a stomach left for it.

    Comment posted August 14th, 2006 at 11:41 am

22. lauren says:

    I didnt expect you to hand me a notepad asking me to sign up for your cult. I’m just saying the methods you use and the way you talk is very cultlike.. For Christ’s sake, show some humility. You are so very, very sure of what you say, and you’re quick to point fingers at other people, but what have you sinned about lately? Dont give me some crap like oh we’re all sinners and I sin a ton. Really, put yourself in someone else’s shoes for once. Imagine the pain women go through to make a choice as hard as terminating a pregnancy, and you claim not to judge, but you do. Otherwise you wouldn’t say abortion is murder. You have implicated my friend Lucy and others as a murderer. There’s no way around that. Have you no shame?

    Don’t give me that crap. Your condescension does not lend itself to any degree of respect. But that’s ok, I don’t really want your respect. I want respect from my peers, and that’s it.

    Why does everyone regard what I say as immature? I’m angry, and I express it. You want me to wrap a red bow around my feelings? I dont have to and nor will I.

    It’s hard not to attack the person when many of you cite ridiculous studies, take things out of context, and talk with such bombastic zealous language. Basically the fact that many of you blatantly lie by citing completely biased studies or state things that you WANT to be true and not necessarily are true, you have lent yourself to a personal attack. As they say, if you dont like th eheat, stay out of the kitchen.

    Lady, if you ever touched me, i swear to god in the heavens all hell would break loose. You have officially become an abuser. How dare you tell me you’d exert corporal punishment on me if you were my mother. I’m sorry foryour children if you see this an acceptable form of child-rearing. It’s disgusting and it’s shameful. If anyone knows that, it’s me.

    As for my family, they’re proud of me. I’ve accomplished a lot, and it’s clear im super passionate. they know i love my sisters (figurative) and (literal) sister, and I want to defend them from right-wing controlling zealots..

    Where have I foot stamped and pouted? Why is it when you find what I say irritable, childish? You say a lot ofthings that annoy me, but I’m not like oh what a child you are! Give it a rest.

    I wasn’t aware this was a conversation to begin with. As to why I am here…. hmm that’s a complicated question. My life has been affected by abortion in many ways, so I take it extremely personal. And I should.. One abortion, is one abortion too many. So i came here trying to honestly put an end to it as well. But i believe the motives of this site aren’t to end abortion—they’re to end womens’ rights. You care more about a zygote than you do a living, breathing woman and her body. Well,that’s pretty sick to me… I said to lucy the other day, I come here now because i know other girls come to this site, and I wouldnt want an uninformed girl to have misinformation, so i see myself as a counter to that. I come here for them.

    Keep praying for me, it’s doing well… I’m becoming more in tune with justice and reality and further away from the craziness I see and hear on this website. Pray for Lucy and I, our social justice mission continues.

    Comment posted August 14th, 2006 at 3:10 pm

23. lauren says:

    MK, are you really asking ME to read that site? please read it yourself thanks!

    I love how you all become such martyrs when you throw the same kind of junk around! haha this is crazy!

    Comment posted August 14th, 2006 at 3:15 pm

24. mary kay says:

    Yawn.

    Comment posted August 14th, 2006 at 6:35 pm

25. mary kay says:

    Pansy,

    I think I’ll get out of the kitchen for awhile too…
    Maybe if we all get out Lauren can turn this into a pro-choice site.
    Then we can start a new one, and she can have her own…

    Whatever,
    We now have 2 new babies coming and I for one am looking forward to pictures and stories, etc.

    I’ve been thinking,
    since you’re Pansy and expecting,
    and Rosie is Rosie, maybe the girls names should be Violet, or Hyacinth or something in honor of this site…

    Anyway, feel free to comment to me anytime, but as for the other stuff, I think I’m going to take my ball and go home. I’m too old for this nonsense. You and I and all of us know what’s right, we’ve spoken our piece, and there’s really not much more to be said. God help our children’s world. And God help us.

    MK

    Comment posted August 14th, 2006 at 6:53 pm

26. mary kay says:

    Hey Rosie girl,

    Haven’t heard from you in a long time…hope everything is okay with our baby. Hope your not getting that morning sickness you thought you were avoiding. If you need even more prayers than you are getting, let us know. You know we’re here for you. Just wanted you to know that we’re thinking of you.

    God bless,

    MK

    Comment posted August 14th, 2006 at 6:59 pm

27. rosie says:

    Mary Kay,
    I know what you mean. I, however have been too darn tired to write much of anything. My morning goes like this: Wake up, shower, eat, and go back to sleep. It wasn’t anything like this the first time,maybe I just don’t remember, at least i’m not puking.LOL 5 more weeks to go until I feel that sense of well being people are always talking about. My sister in-law wants to know if she can come to the birth and i’m not really sure if I want anyone there,so I guess I have some decisions to make. I figure it will either bother the heck out of me or not even phase me when i’m in labor. Then I have the thought in the back of my mind that something could go wrong again and I shouldn’t even think that far ahead, i’m trying to stay positive though.
    I ran the names Iris and violet past my husband and I don’t think he liked either very much with the name Hannah so Elizabeth it is. I should be glad I got to have Hannah, because I have 8 nieces and they all have great names. Anyway i’m tired, talk to you later.

    Comment posted August 14th, 2006 at 7:26 pm

28. mary kay says:

    Rosie,

    It sounds perfectly normal to me! Sleepy, you’re getting sleepy…
    It does pass, I promise.
    As to the sister in-law, if she has been in a birthing room before, if she makes you laugh and if you feel TOTALLY comfortable with her, then she could be an asset. But the last thing you need to be doing is worrying about HER reactions, or listening to HER version of the birth for the next 25 years…Wake up! I’m not done yet…

    Is hubby going to be there? Mom? Are you getting an epidural? All these things matter when it comes to who is in the room with you. Truly though, by the time transistion is taking place, you wouldn’t care if 12 piece orchestra and a three ring circus were in there with you. The problem is the next morning. It’s sort of like when you’ve had too much to drink and can’t remember what you said or who you slugged. But like I said, if you and your sis-in-law have a good relationship, she could be a blessing…Okay, now you can go to sleep. You’re in my prayers.
    MK

    Comment posted August 14th, 2006 at 8:34 pm

29. rosie says:

    Mary Kay,
    I am comfortable with her but i’m not sure to what degree. I doubt there will be any epidural, i’m having a home birth. Hubby will be there and both mom’s want to be there, I could have 20 people there if I want. I was invited to another sister in-law’s birth and there was no way I was going before I went through it myself. I’ve heard it will be easier for me since this is my second, but the first was so small.(9oz) Ugh! the smell thing is killing me, every room has its own smell, the musty basement is the worst! People’s bathrooms have a smell that make me want to crawl the walls. Everything seems so much more this time. Anyway i’m tired again, it’s only10:30am!

    Comment posted August 15th, 2006 at 10:32 am

30. Pansy Moss says:

    MK,

    Out of the kitchen suits me just fine.

    Rosie,

    Oh, the smell thing. I am just getting over that. The basement was horrible. Our area flooded so much…

    We are having a home birth this time, I am so excited.

    Comment posted August 15th, 2006 at 1:19 pm

31. Generations for Life » Blog Archive » Weird says:

    […] In the past, I’ve written about some of the hate mail mail we receive; this we very rarely respond to (for what I’m sure are obvious reasons). Instead, it usually just gets filed right away in the “hate mail” folder. […]

    Comment posted October 26th, 2006 at 2:09 pm