Out of the kitchen suits me just fine.

Rosie,

Oh, the smell thing. I am just getting over that. The basement was horrible. Our area flooded so much…

We are having a home birth this time, I am so excited.

It sounds perfectly normal to me! Sleepy, you’re getting sleepy…
It does pass, I promise.
As to the sister in-law, if she has been in a birthing room before, if she makes you laugh and if you feel TOTALLY comfortable with her, then she could be an asset. But the last thing you need to be doing is worrying about HER reactions, or listening to HER version of the birth for the next 25 years…Wake up! I’m not done yet…

Is hubby going to be there? Mom? Are you getting an epidural? All these things matter when it comes to who is in the room with you. Truly though, by the time transistion is taking place, you wouldn’t care if 12 piece orchestra and a three ring circus were in there with you. The problem is the next morning. It’s sort of like when you’ve had too much to drink and can’t remember what you said or who you slugged. But like I said, if you and your sis-in-law have a good relationship, she could be a blessing…Okay, now you can go to sleep. You’re in my prayers.
MK

Haven’t heard from you in a long time…hope everything is okay with our baby. Hope your not getting that morning sickness you thought you were avoiding. If you need even more prayers than you are getting, let us know. You know we’re here for you. Just wanted you to know that we’re thinking of you.

God bless,

MK

I think I’ll get out of the kitchen for awhile too…
Maybe if we all get out Lauren can turn this into a pro-choice site.
Then we can start a new one, and she can have her own…

Whatever,
We now have 2 new babies coming and I for one am looking forward to pictures and stories, etc.

I’ve been thinking,
since you’re Pansy and expecting,
and Rosie is Rosie, maybe the girls names should be Violet, or Hyacinth or something in honor of this site…

Anyway, feel free to comment to me anytime, but as for the other stuff, I think I’m going to take my ball and go home. I’m too old for this nonsense. You and I and all of us know what’s right, we’ve spoken our piece, and there’s really not much more to be said. God help our children’s world. And God help us.

MK

I love how you all become such martyrs when you throw the same kind of junk around! haha this is crazy!

Don’t give me that crap. Your condescension does not lend itself to any degree of respect. But that’s ok, I don’t really want your respect. I want respect from my peers, and that’s it.

Why does everyone regard what I say as immature? I’m angry, and I express it. You want me to wrap a red bow around my feelings? I dont have to and nor will I.

It’s hard not to attack the person when many of you cite ridiculous studies, take things out of context, and talk with such bombastic zealous language. Basically the fact that many of you blatantly lie by citing completely biased studies or state things that you WANT to be true and not necessarily are true, you have lent yourself to a personal attack. As they say, if you dont like th eheat, stay out of the kitchen.

Lady, if you ever touched me, i swear to god in the heavens all hell would break loose. You have officially become an abuser. How dare you tell me you’d exert corporal punishment on me if you were my mother. I’m sorry foryour children if you see this an acceptable form of child-rearing. It’s disgusting and it’s shameful. If anyone knows that, it’s me.

As for my family, they’re proud of me. I’ve accomplished a lot, and it’s clear im super passionate. they know i love my sisters (figurative) and (literal) sister, and I want to defend them from right-wing controlling zealots..

Where have I foot stamped and pouted? Why is it when you find what I say irritable, childish? You say a lot ofthings that annoy me, but I’m not like oh what a child you are! Give it a rest.

I wasn’t aware this was a conversation to begin with. As to why I am here…. hmm that’s a complicated question. My life has been affected by abortion in many ways, so I take it extremely personal. And I should.. One abortion, is one abortion too many. So i came here trying to honestly put an end to it as well. But i believe the motives of this site aren’t to end abortion—they’re to end womens’ rights. You care more about a zygote than you do a living, breathing woman and her body. Well,that’s pretty sick to me… I said to lucy the other day, I come here now because i know other girls come to this site, and I wouldnt want an uninformed girl to have misinformation, so i see myself as a counter to that. I come here for them.

Keep praying for me, it’s doing well… I’m becoming more in tune with justice and reality and further away from the craziness I see and hear on this website. Pray for Lucy and I, our social justice mission continues.

I agree which is why I stopped commenting a few days ago. I didn’t even read the repsonses to my last few comments. I don’t mind the differing opinions. I have a problem with foul language and abuse. I have lived in a third world country that was mostly Hindu and Muslim, I lived among the Amish, I used to go away to Jewish camp with my Jewish cousins. I have pro-choice friends and we just agree to disagree after we hear each other out (oddly they never say I am abusive for disagreeing with them). I also know many pro-life Catholics I do not get along with for the same reasons as here, they are mean, abusive people.

Respect has nothing to do with your religious or political affiliation. I would never go to a blog that was pro-choice and tell them to “blow me”. And I tire of the whole idea that we should not say we believe abortion is murder because it might hurt someone’s feelings, yet the same people can call us slave masters, Nazis, facists,rapists, bigots cuss and use the “n” word because we care about the feelings of the unborn means we do not have any feelings at all, or we should not be given the same benefit.

Anyway, I am tired of the debate aspect. I would rather just rwad the articles like you said. Leave the rest to people with a stomach left for it.

Are you getting tired of getting beat up too? Sometimes I get so confused as to what the heck I’m doing here.

The arguments are the same, over and over…nothing new…not a word.

The other side can’t realize that we don’t want to “force” them to do anything. That may be the result, but not the intent. We just want to save babies.

Our side just keeps repeating that life begins at conception and we believe the law should be on our side.

Then the other side says, quit trying to force yourself on us.

Am I nuts, or did these guys come here voluntarily? I would be just as happy reading John and Eric’s new articles and going on my merry way. I don’t really see the point of all this name calling.

Lucy makes some interesting points, and although I disagree with every word of it, at least it’s not abusive. But I still don’t understand what we all hope to accomplish. Obviously we can’t “prove” our side. They can’t either. So what is the Point?

My head hurts. My heart hurts. I’m tired. Maybe I just need a break. Or not. I don’t know. But it sure is nice to vent and know that you aren’t going to get called some nasty ol’ name because of it!

Thanks,
MK

apparently Lauren never read this either. Perhaps these guys can give her a few pointers and decency in blogging…Thanks.

I was on vacation when you asked Lucy that question. However I am still not clear on what she means. Did she mean she was hoping to enlighten us and change our minds? Maybe she’ll answer again and give us a new insight…

MK

Why did you come to this site (not that I’m complaining – I love talking with you and have gained much insight from our conversations) but I don’t understand what you were hoping to achieve by entering these discusssions. Were you hoping to change our minds?

I asked her the same question. Maybe you can find her answer there.

I have never lured you into our “cult”. I have never called you a name. And I, like you have feelings. I also feel very passionately about this topic. If you for one minute would try to see this through our eyes as I have painstakingly tried to see it through yours, you would understand that we believe human beings are being murdered and we find that to be a greater offense than having one of your so-called rights violated. By your reasoning that would give me the right to call you names, degrade you and make fun of you…but I don’t. I stick to the topic and address your speech when I find it offensive (not the ideas behind your speech, but the speech itself). If I speak passionaltely then I am a bully and a terrorist, If I try to be kinder then I am a manipulator. YOU, not I, expressed (albeit a looooooong time ago) a desire to learn and to be open. But you don’t want to learn, you just want to hear your own voice. I respect everyone on this site, even YOU, (although you make it all but impossible) and I must say that lately I have been losing what little respect I had for you…NOT BECCAUSE OF YOUR VIEWS ON ABORTION, BUT BECAUSE OF YOUR IMMATURE MANNER OF EXPRESSING YOURSELF.

Why can’t you see that you can attack our cause without attacking the person. I HAVE NEVER CALLED YOU A MURDERER. NEVER. NEVER. NEVER. I HAVE CALLED ABORTION MURDER, BUT I DO NOT, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER JUDGE YOU OR YOUR MOTIVES.

I wish you were capable of doing the same. But apparantly you can’t. I don’t want to be your mother, but I do have a very mothering nature. And like any good mother, when I see childlike behavior I bring the child’s attention to it. If you weren’t acting so childish you wouldn’t think of me as mothering you – you would see me as an equal and realize that I was trying to show you respect. If I were your mother I would put you over my knee and spank you. I would also be ashamed of you. Not for standing up for what you believe, but for belittling other people because your imagination is so small that you can’t think of any other way of getting your opinions across.

You don’t want to be friends? That, as everything else, my foot-stamping, pouting dear, is YOUR CHOICE. NOT MINE. But I will abide by it. Let me know if you change your mind. Until then, consider this conversation on hold.

I ask you, as I asked Lucy, although I asked her for very different reasons, Why are you here? Did your abusers teach you so well, that the only way to get your point across is to be abusive? If so they should be commended because they did a wonderful job.

I will continue to pray for you. Pray that you learn how to treat people (all people, not just those that agree with you) and that somehow, someday, we can continue with this conversation. Until then, peace and God be with you…

MK

Also, I don’t think it’s a lesser offense to condescend mary kay. I’ve discussed it with others who visit this site but dont write, they say you are extremely condescending and try to pretend to be my mother. i am not an abuser. I’ve been abused, and in many ways, you make me feel like I’m being abused again. And so again, I retaliate. You may not like it, you may even find it distasteful, but I’d like to say much of what I say is genuine anger and hurt. Why is it that I must mince my words if you make me feel like I’m being raped? Why should I condescend in a pretty way as you do to me? I’m not going to. You’re attempting to violate my rights. You are trying to control my body. I find that to be a much greater physical offense, than my words.

Lucy and I have different tactics sometimes. I respect her and I think to some degree she respects me. Quinn and Michael 2 don’t say nasty things to us. They say stupid things. They say extreme representations of your views. Basically I think they show many of the latent and real feelings of the pro-life movement, and that is why your group has its reputation. This reputation is militant, ultra-religious, right-wing, angry, and at times, promotes violence. As for the rest of you, I’m not sure if you really are kind or are wolves in sheeps’ clothing. Either way, the aim is the same and is pretty much of equal distaste to me.

So I ask you mary kay, what have I crossed th eline on? Have I crossed the line with my genuine anger and hurt? Have I crossed the line in basically accusing you of being the rapist and tormentor, which I genuinely see you as? Why is it so hard for you to believe that a young woman such as myself values her body and the right to make decisions with it, might get a little upset when you are actively attempting to deny her that very right? You want roe v. wade overturned. You wan’t abortion to be illegal, 1st, 2nd and 3rd trimester. You want women once their pregnant to remain that way. You want us to embrace our inner mother, our only true self according to you. You are attempting to make life-changing decisions for me. And I call you a piece of crap. I’m sorry, but I dont think the two even come in the realm of comparison.

I idolize lucy? I dont think holding mutual respect for a person, makes you idolize them? I’ve gotten emails from girls who have come to this site, saying “thank you” for sticking up for their choice. They are not strong enough to write on here themselves, for fear that you may try to mother them or Quinn will come on here with his shadow government business.

On a similar note, I’ve never heard Heywood Jablowme, but that’s pretty hilarious. Ahhh, it cracked me up. The pains people go to.

I agree that abuse is the fault of the abuser. It’s hard to think that anyone would believe otherwise. I completely agree that the actions of her family seem suspect. I got no impression that Christin understood her situation, much less gave approval for an abortion. I think, indeed, that she should have had more control over her body. What would have given you to think that anyone would disagree with these things?

Usually in cases like this it is the abuser who arranges for the abortion and presses the abused person into it. They do this not out of a respect for the woman, but to cover their crime and further control her body. Abortion providers often help these abusers bring women to the clinic posing as concerned relatives, and vow to the women not to tell parents or authorities. That’s not helping anyone except the “clinic” and the abuser. Neither you nor I know what Christin would have decided if she had been allowed to decide. However, it is clear that getting an abortion did not get her the help she obviously needed.

#
Lucy says:

. I was looking for the story in a place that wasn’t Anti-Abortion. I can’t seem to find one.

If you type “Christin Gilbert” abortion in your search engine you’ll get a ton of hits including the Kaieser Foundation…

MK

As long as I am asking questions, puzzle me this…

If Lauren was one of us and disagreed with you, how long would you put up with her abusiveness. I mean really, calling one of us a pile of crap, calling me her rapist and tormentor when I offered friendship…I just think that considering how upset you get with lesser offenses from us, that you’d be livid if Lauren were addressing her comments to you instead of us. Am I wrong?
If I’m right, then why don’t you address her beligerence like you address ours? When Quinn or Michael 2 say something particularly nastyto your or Lauren, John and I have spoken up and chastised them. Even when we agree with the point that they are trying to make. Even though we are on the same side. But you never correct Lauren for being unkind (and she really crosses the line sometimes). Why is that? Is it because she is the only one on your team? She idolizes you, so she would take criticism (constructive criticism, mind you)from you much better than from us…

Just a thought…

MK