If You Like to Debate Contraception…
— Posted by John (April 27, 2007 at 3:59 pm)
I’ve recently been involved in a discussion on JivinJ’s blog on the topic of contraception.
If that’s the sort of thing that interests you, the discussion has been moved to my personal blog. Feel free to catch up and follow it here.
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Mike says:
John,
I like to debate against contraception. To me it’s an easy issue to debate against. First, we must be open to God’s will. Second, you can debate against hormonal contraception simply by stating the fact it’s “abortifacient in nature”. Last, you can argue countries who have stressed using condoms so far have an increased level in AIDs. It’s pretty easy to debate against if you know the basics.
By the way has anyone seen this aweful video called…
“It’s Elementary: If Every Parent Were To See This Video, The ‘Gay’ Agenda Would Be Crippled. ”
Check it out..
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=150300
Mike
Comment posted April 29th, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Claire says:
Hello Mr. Janson,
Just read through all the arguements, and just wanted to say you’ve been very well-stated, humble, and eloquent on your side! I always love being able to “get further equipped” by tuning in to a good debate.
I’ll offer a few prayers for Naaman, too! May your words reach not only his heart, but manys others as well.
Sincerely in Christ,
Claire Halbur
P.S. Do you think you could add me to your blogroll? I would be honored…
P.P.S. The photos of your kids on your personal blog are adorable!
Comment posted April 29th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
Claire says:
Oops! Sorry, Mr. Jansen…didn’t mean to misspell your name!
Comment posted April 29th, 2007 at 10:02 pm
John says:
Claire,
Many thanks for your kind words, especially about our daughters. (They take after their mother…)
By the way, I’ve added a link to your blog on this site’s blogroll as well as that on my personal blog.
Comment posted April 30th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
John says:
Mike wrote: “Second, you can debate against hormonal contraception simply by stating the fact it’s “abortifacient in nature”.
Mike,
Personally speaking, I avoid referring to hormonal contraceptives as being “abortifacient in nature”, and I try to dissuade fellow pro-lifers from using this term as well. (I’ve indirectly touched on this point previously on this blog — for example, here and, in more detail, here.)
While we do know that hormonal contraceptives have the potential to act as abortifacients, using terms like “abortifacient in nature” seems to imply that they act exclusively as abortifacients. This is not the case.
Mike also said: “Last, you can argue countries who have stressed using condoms so far have an increased level in AIDs.”
While you’re right, of course, I generally think consequentialist arguments aren’t the most persuasive ones.
Too often, I think, debates tend to get bogged down by these sorts of arguments. This seems to be especially true of debates on contraception.
Coincidentally, at this time last year, the Marriage Project blog sponsored a weeklong debate on contraception between Jennifer Roback Morse (who spoke at our “Contraception Is Not the Answer” conference last fall), and Cristina Page (author of How the Pro-Choice Movement Saved America).
When I first heard about the prospect of a debate like this, I thought, “Ooh - this’ll be good!”
For the most part, though, I thought the debate was a big disappointment, largely because both sides focused too much on the consequences of contraception and not nearly enough on contraception itself. This tendency was noticed by Maggie Gallagher, who - thankfully - felt compelled to “interrupt” the debate more than once and point this out.
Comment posted April 30th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
Michael-2 says:
John and Mike, remember that even if hormonal contraception were not abortifacient in nature, it would be at best a moral hazard because it is systemic. If a pill were developed that is not abortifacient, it would still be something not to use. It is a “sinful system” where you had agreed to a long term behavior pattern. Barrier contraception use is also perhaps sinful, but not necessarily a long term system.
The hazards of contraception at not confined to the issue of being a pre-abortion philosophical entree, which it is. Contraception is a slow poision for a number of things. It is not usually a fast poision, and if it were it would be easily identified as evil. But it is not fast so it is a stealth evil.
I repeat what I say to all young people contemplating marriage. Stay off sterilizing contraception such as the pill, IUD, patch. And learn fertility monitoring to eliminate or greatly reduce contraception when you are postponing pregnancy. If you can not be perfect in this endevor, still stay on the road and clean it up in time as a constructive goal.
Comment posted May 1st, 2007 at 12:33 am
Mike says:
Mike2,
Good points.
John,
While I am on the same side you are on the contraception debate I will have to agree to disagree with you on a point. I know I cannot post more than one link per post so I will have to post multiple posts to get my message across.
I still think its a good idea to argue the consequences of contraception. Americans in great numbers have been using it now for 40-50 years. So I think we should point out the detriments of contaception starting with the Pope’s writings and predictions from Humanae Vitea a long time ago. We can also point out how Abstinenance Education is flourishing in a few countries while AID’s is flourishing in countries contraception is pushed.
While stating using contraception can “possibly” cause chemical abortions is correct but I don’t think you should use stronger language when debating those who are Pro-Contraception.
For instance, there have been over 45,000,000 surgical abortions performed in the United States since 1973. This is an enormous number. Did you know it is estimated there are 5 to 9 times more chemical abortions caused in the U.S. through contraception than the number of surgical abortions in the U.S.? Therefore I don’t think the word “possibly” should be used in this debate. The numbers of fatalities are way too high.
http://www.prolifewisconsin.org/infolibraryshow.asp?lID=28
Mike
Comment posted May 1st, 2007 at 8:43 am
Mike says:
John,
There are approximately 1.6 million surgical abortions per year and 9-14 million chemical abortions per year in the United States. Here is an example of how the number of chemical abortions are estimated in the United States…
http://www.theuniversityconcourse.com/IV,1,10-8-1998/Ziegler.htm
Mike
Comment posted May 1st, 2007 at 8:46 am
Mike says:
John,
Last, we both agree contraception can cause chemical abortions. I am glad to also see Planned Parenthood also believes contraception can cause chemical abortions…
http://all.org/article.php?id=10217&PHPSESSID=d6c4aac5ba558445f33333c239f77391
Mike
Comment posted May 1st, 2007 at 9:00 am
Claire says:
John said: “…I’ve added a link to your blog on this site’s blogroll as well as that on my personal blog.”
Thank you so very much!
Comment posted May 2nd, 2007 at 9:48 pm
Naaman says:
John,
Despite my best intentions, I will not be able to continue this discussion with you in any reasonable timeframe. My work has simply gotten crazy lately, my home life has also gotten busy, and I just don’t have the time to treat your thoughtful post with the respect that it deserves.
Instead, let me just say that my attitudes on contraception are evolving over time as the Holy Spirit works in my life. Our dialogue has been a part of that process. I appreciate those commenters who have offered to pray for me. By all means, please pray for me if you want to do so. Prayer can only help us all to come together in the unity that God intends for us to enjoy.
May God bless your ministry. May God have mercy on us and heal our land.
Comment posted May 4th, 2007 at 6:59 am
John says:
Naaman,
You’re a good man. May God bless you, too.
Comment posted May 4th, 2007 at 10:18 am
KT says:
i went to hs with you and you always think you are right and that you are above everyone. frankly it makes me sick!
Comment posted May 7th, 2007 at 9:14 pm