it’s ok…pro-choice = pro-abortion if you want it that way
let’s stop letting abortion have such a negative connotation anyways

I am completely with you. I am also pro-choice, and I do not support late abortions. I do not go encouraging everybody to go ahead and abort their babies. I think women have the right to choose, and there are also reasons that abortion should be allowed.

I despise how everybody ties this situation in with religion.

See what happened in history? They decided to leave out certain details in the bible and women were suppressed for hundreds of years. Yes, Eve was not the first woman…the first woman actually left Adam, and men decided that they did not like that so they was “accidentally” left out.

Kendra—A few things:

First, I’d I would invite you look at our Q & A section, where we explain why we believe what we believe. You’ll notice that there are no references to God, Jesus, the Bible, or Church teaching contained in any of our responses.

We deliberately chose not to include any religious references to make the point that opposition to abortion need not be rooted in religious belief — a fact borne witness to by the existence of groups like the Atheist and Agnostic Pro-Life League.

Second, you brought up the issue of Christianity. You asked a question about Christian beliefs, and I addressed your question.

Third, believe it or not, I actually am quite fond of the idea of separation of church and state, properly understood. As a result, in our country, churches are not subject to government control.

I must confess, though, that I’m not quite sure what you mean by this term, which, btw, does not appear in the U.S. Constitution or any of its Amendments.

I certainly hope you don’t interpret the idea of separation of church and state to mean that religious beliefs are not welcome in discussions of how laws and policies should be shaped. If you really did believe that, you’d then have to say that many abolitionist groups in the pre-Civil War era were acting improperly by framing their arguments against slavery in explicitly Christian terms and campaigning to have the country’s laws changed in accord with these beliefs.

You’d also then have to say that Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and his Southern Christian Leadership Conference were acting improperly when they likewise appealed to their religious beliefs in an attempt to enact civil rights laws.

There’s this wonderful thing in our nation’s constitution called “seperation of church and state”, I suggest your read about it.

Go right ahead. You have every right to ask all the questions you want about Christianity.

In fact, I hope you keep asking questions.

Kendra also said:” I am not justifying sins by asking a question or making and open-ended statement.”

Kendra— originally, you said this:

If you’re Catholic or Christian, don’t you believe that everything is predetermined? If so, then God already predetermined that that child would not be born, so don’t lose any sleep over it.

The answer to your question is, as I stated in a previous comment, that God is all-knowing, and therefore knows in advance what sins each of us is going to commit, but that definitely does not mean that he wants us to commit those sins.

What you’re doing here is begging the question; I was simply pointing out that at least as far as the Catholic Church is concerned (I have no authority to speak for all groups that call themselves Christian), you have some big misconconceptions about what we believe about predestination.

The idea that we should not “lose any sleep” over babies killed by abortion is radically opposed to what we believe. On the contrary, we should always lament the presence of sin in the world and strive to grow closer to God by avoiding sin ourselves and encouraging others to do the same.

I see I’ve touched a nerve, but I won’t take back my statement. If you want to bring christianity into making and forming laws, I am going to question what you believe. I am not justifying sins by asking a question or making and open-ended statement.

Kendra—I’d urge you to reconsider what you’re saying here, as it could be used to justify any sin as somehow being in accord with what God had predetermined.

What you’re talking about is a Calvinist view of predestination, which, thankfully, most Christians do not believe in.

While it’s certainly true that God is all-knowing, and therefore knows in advance what sins each of us is going to commit, that definitely does not mean that he wants us to commit those sins.

In fact, just the opposite is true.

Just as it would be madness to say, “It’s meant to happen that some children will be molested, because God predetermined it,” it’s also madness to say, “It’s meant to happen that some children will be killed by abortion, because God predetermined it.”

I think you’re very well spoken and I do see your point, but I cannot say that I would just “hope” a pregnant girl doesn’t die. I would never want to risk something like that. And once again, if things are pre-determined, which the majority of Christians believe, that baby was never meant to happen.

The lives of both pregnant mothers and their unborn children are precious and equal in worth. If we kill the child in order to preserve the life of the mother, we are deciding that the mother’s life is more valuable than her baby’s. What we try to always do is save the lives of both mother and child. But we simply cannot kill one to save the other because then we put more worth on one than on the other. If a mother dies during pregnancy or childbirth, this is a great tragedy and we do our best to see to it that this does not happen, but if she does die despite our best efforts, we still did not inflict or intend her death. In an abortion, the death of the baby is always intended and inflicted. This is what makes abortion so wrong: the intentional death of an innocent person.

I hope this helps, and God bless.

I understand that you believe abortion is evil and wrong. But I believe that your statement means you’d rather risk a girl killing herself in order to miscarry than have an abortion, and I find that wrong and to be frank, evil. I also find it evil and slightly facist that other people think they have the right to speak for a child that is not theirs and attempt to tell someone else what to do with their own body. I’m not asking you to support abortion because people who are pro-choice and pro-life will never see eye to eye on the issue of abortion. However, I am asking you if you would rather have one life never happen, or have two lives completely end (one which had a past and a family), or if you would support having to lives drastically altered and probably never be the same or be normal.

I understand that you believe abortion is evil and wrong. But I believe that your statement means you’d rather risk a girl killing herself in order to miscarry than have an abortion, and I find that wrong and to be frank, evil. I also find it evil and slightly racist that other people think they have the right to speak for a child that is not theirs and attempt to tell someone else what to do with their own body. I’m not asking you to support abortion because people who are pro-choice and pro-life will never see eye to eye on the issue of abortion. However, I am asking you if you would rather have one life never happen, or have two lives completely end (one which had a past and a family), or if you would support having to lives drastically altered and probably never be the same or be normal.

We can’t support legal abortion as a solution to the problem of women hurting themselves in their efforts to use home methods to kill their unborn children. That would be using an evil means to attain a good end. We can’t support one evil in our zeal to end another evil. Because then we haven’t really solved the problem of evil. We’ve eliminated one evil, yes, but we’ve also just created another in the process of eliminating that first evil. So we got nowhere.

I also believe abortions may be the answer depending on the situation, and I’m not just talking rape or incest. I know girls who have gone to very destructive measures to try and miscarry when they thought they were pregnant. Some of these methods include binge drinking on an empty stomach, having someone punch them repeatedly or push them down a flight of stairs, attempting to “penetrate” the fetus, or taking various home concoctions to induce a miscarriage. I don’t know about the pope, but I would much rather have someone choose to have a surgery than to do something that could harm themselves or an unborn child for the rest of its days.

If you’re Catholic or Christian, don’t you believe that everything is predetermined? If so, then God already predetermined that that child would not be born, so don’t lose any sleep over it.

I’m sure that a lot of the people who consider themselves pro-choice simply use the word sparingly and forget (or try to forget) what the “choice” there actually involves. Maybe it’s also a result of the “convenience” of the option. But if they really try to be vigilant Catholics, they’ll know how much we don’t need it. After all, there’s abstinence–the beautiful concept of saving yourself for the person you eventually marry. I hope for real love; I don’t see it practiced so much anymore, but it’s never to late to make changes!

Salamat for stopping by our blog! I’ve added you to our blogroll.

I see from your blog that you’re from Quezon City — my wife’s mom’s family is from there! (And her dad’s familiy is from Iloilo.)

You’re absolutely right about some people coming up with the term “pro-choice”. And it’s for this reason that we as pro-lifers should hold our opponents feet to the fire, so to speak, when having a conversation with someone who identifies himself/herself as “pro-choice”.

I always find it useful to say something like, “OK, define ‘choice.’ What exactly is the ‘choice’ you support?” Then, when you get the person to admit that he is talking about abortion, ask him to explain, in very precise terms, exactly what happens to a baby in an abortion. And then ask, “So that’s the type of ‘choice’ you believe should be legal?”